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  • If you have thoughts on The Moon of Thalos 3, write it here.

    My thoughts are:

    The Turtles encounters Mona Lisa and needs the second piece of the Heart of Darkness.

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    • After seeing the season's debut today, I have high hopes for this season of TMNT!ūüėĄ And to start this chain of conversation, I think your right about what you think is going to happen. I'm just hoping that she isn't emphasized in one episode and then just becomes a minor ally like Muckman or Mondo Gecko. Especially in this series where she is Salamandrian warrior who has actual war and combat experience. No turtle ally in this series has had that prior to their first meeting of them so far, unless you want to count the back and forth shifting Karai as an ally. Because of this I think she is more inclined to join the turtles in pursuit of stopping the Triceratons. I say this because the Salamandrians are likely enemies of the Triceratons as well and those dinos may be trying to destroy their planet too. The fact that today's episode ended with the Turtles being directly in front of the Triceraton warships further emphasizes this and may explain how both groups crashed on that moon around the same time. Again though, I feel like she will or at least should be a major character in this season's "Triceraton War" saga. Her warrior background and the fact that it was revealed at Comic-con that Raphael is going to have a relationship with her gives her additional story. There were a lot of crushes, but this would be the first girlfriend of a member of the team. And I'm including April and Casey, who aren't an official couple in this series yet. Although I don't expect any kissy smoochy stuff between these two because of their nature and that's cool with me. Personally, I am very excited to see how the other turtles will react to this. I can already hear Donnie and Mikey saying "Raphael...has a girlfriend? RAPH HAS A GIRLFRIEND!?!ūüėę And because the writing team thought she was worth mentioning at both comic cons covering season 4, I am looking forward to Mona's role in this season. But not seeing her in the intro worries me ‚ėĻ, but I still maintain hope.ūüôā

      Sorry about my essay of a comment. I just usually like to clear my head first so I get into specifics when the conversation really picks up.

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      After seeing the season's debut today, I have high hopes for this season of TMNT!ūüėĄ And to start this chain of conversation, I think your right about what you think is going to happen. I'm just hoping that she isn't emphasized in one episode and then just becomes a minor ally like Muckman or Mondo Gecko. Especially in this series where she is Salamandrian warrior who has actual war and combat experience. No turtle ally in this series has had that prior to their first meeting of them so far, unless you want to count the back and forth shifting Karai as an ally. Because of this I think she is more inclined to join the turtles in pursuit of stopping the Triceratons. I say this because the Salamandrians are likely enemies of the Triceratons as well and those dinos may be trying to destroy their planet too. The fact that today's episode ended with the Turtles being directly in front of the Triceraton warships further emphasizes this and may explain how both groups crashed on that moon around the same time. Again though, I feel like she will or at least should be a major character in this season's "Triceraton War" saga. Her warrior background and the fact that it was revealed at Comic-con that Raphael is going to have a relationship with her gives her additional story. There were a lot of crushes, but this would be the first girlfriend of a member of the team. And I'm including April and Casey, who aren't an official couple in this series yet. Although I don't expect any kissy smoochy stuff between these two because of their nature and that's cool with me. Personally, I am very excited to see how the other turtles will react to this. I can already hear Donnie and Mikey saying "Raphael...has a girlfriend? RAPH HAS A GIRLFRIEND!?!ūüėę And because the writing team thought she was worth mentioning at both comic cons covering season 4, I am looking forward to Mona's role in this season. But not seeing her in the intro worries me ‚ėĻ, but I still maintain hope.ūüôā

      Sorry about my essay of a comment. I just usually like to clear my head first so I get into specifics when the conversation really picks up.

      I know Raph will develop a crush on Mona Lisa.

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    • ūüėĄ haha yeah. I can't wait to see that. That'll be so adorable.ūüėä

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      ūüėĄ haha yeah. I can't wait to see that. That'll be so adorable.ūüėä

      Not acording to Gilgameshkun, who has many many grievances in that reguard. 

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    • True, true. But G-kun hates the show now anyway, so whatevs. That's cool though. We all have our opinions and preferences, so I'm not gonna bash him because of his. He'll do him and we'll do us. Wow, when I say it like that it sounds gross and perverted! But you get the idea, I'm just a positive guy/TMNT fan. ūüėéūüĎć

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    • I can't to see how they play around with this season so far the first episode was brilliant and I can't to see what happens next

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote: True, true. But G-kun hates the show now anyway, so whatevs. That's cool though. We all have our opinions and preferences, so I'm not gonna bash him because of his. He'll do him and we'll do us. Wow, when I say it like that it sounds gross and perverted! But you get the idea, I'm just a positive guy/TMNT fan. ūüėéūüĎć

      I don't actually hate the show. I hate what it's become. I really, really loved the show. Let me put things in perspective:

      I just realized something when thinking about the new Mona Lisa's real name. "Ik'thba." I repeated it in my mind, "Ik'thba Ik'thba Ik'thba Ik'thba," then quickly realized something rather startling. When the name is said repeated, you hear "Thpike Thpike Thpike," sounding like a lisped version of "Spike." If the writers obliquely named her after Spike‚ÄĒRaph and Slash having made a strong impression on gay audiences as startlingly believable love interests‚ÄĒit will only add to the suspicion that the earlier writers wrote both Raph and Slash as gay characters before they were seemingly quietly made to stop after the end of season 2. To add insult to injury, Zelda Williams is herself an LGBT actress who voiced a major character in the final season of another Nickelodeon series that ended with two female main characters being in love. I know I'm not the only fan of Raph and Slash who's feeling taunted and betrayed.

      All that said, I've been trying not to care. The 2012 TV series canon has now been split into two separate canons between the TV show and the Amazing Adventures comics. And so far, Amazing Adventures is already much better written. Maybe they'll actually give that version of Raph and Slash more respect and continued development. I no longer trust the TV show to do that.

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    • I...have to disagree on at least the name thing, I only said Spike when I started consciously trying to. And if it was, can we just concede and say Raph and Mikey are omnisexual? It wouldn't be that strange, human puberty mixed with reptilian DNA, its a SMORGASBORD of sexuality.

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    • Gilgameshkun
      Gilgameshkun removed this reply because:
      Just easier this way.
      04:34, October 29, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Gilgameshkun
      Gilgameshkun removed this reply because:
      It was a test.
      03:57, October 29, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Nah, it wouldn't be strange at all. I keep saying Raph often thinks like a woman. I suppose it's possible he could be a tomboy lesbian of sorts. But still, then it's hard to reconcile him seeming so indifferent to the presence of women. I'll go with the same conclusion one of my friends proposed‚ÄĒinconsistent writing, inconsistent characterization, lots of retooling.

      You know, this reminds me of something. Over the decades, the novelist Arthur C. Clarke wrote his Space Odyssey books with each sequel making fundamental retcons over the previous book. The first book dealt with a journey to Saturn, but then the first sequel dealt with Jupiter, and treated the previous story as if it had always dealt with Jupiter. (The first film adaptation, 2001: A Space Odyssey, also changed the events of the first book to take place near Jupiter.) Then the second sequel made even more retcons on the second book, and so forth.

      Later, Clarke explained why this happened. Though they were sequels, each story still took place in an alternate universe that had a few select differences from the previous book, and that the entire series represented a multiverse of possible scenarios. Depending on your perspective, it was either a cop-out explanation, or rather brilliant.

      Best case scenario, this is an explanation that could apply to Nick's TMNT as it has been retooled over the years.

      Or there's Space Dandy's approach, where every episode seems to exist in its own alternate universe, and the series teases that they are indeed separate universes, what with all the main characters dying at the end of the first episode before being alive again in the second episode as if nothing had happened.

      But that would require intent in advance. To me it's less likely any of these changes for TMNT were planned from day one, and more likely they represented new directions that someone high up at Nickelodeon decreed the show should go. It happens all the time.

      Yoshimickster: Thanks for trying to find common ground.

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    • UltimateTitan6
      UltimateTitan6 removed this reply because:
      repetitive
      12:15, October 29, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Do not read past this unless you want spoilers. Take heed, people. This your only warning!




      Yeah it's probably not as big a deal as I made it sound because some of you may have already seen this. Just a few screenshots of the book based on this episode.

      Image l

      Can't wait for this scene. This will be too HYPE!

      IMG 1206-1-

      Explains the crash

      IMG 1207-1-

      Shows the crash

      IMG 1208-1-

      Consistent with the clip

      IMG 1209

      also consistent

      IMG 1210

      Mona ATTACKS!

      IMG 1211

      She's one tough alien cookie.

      IMG 1212

      That's new...

      IMG 1213

      Budding romance if you ask me. :

      ]
      IMG 1214

      Ok, well. Maybe if you ask many others besides me, too...

      IMG 1215

      See you soon, Ik'thaba! BOOYAKASHA! The End...

      And there you go. I just saved you guys five dollars. You're welcome :]

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    • I Read this,but WHERE ARE APRIL AND CASEY!!!!

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Do not read past this unless you want spoilers. Take heed, people. This your only warning!




      Yeah it's probably not as big a deal as I made it sound because some of you may have already seen this. Just a few screenshots of the book based on this episode.

      Image l

      Can't wait for this scene. This will be too HYPE!

      IMG 1206-1-

      Explains the crash

      IMG 1207-1-

      Shows the crash

      IMG 1208-1-

      Consistent with the clip

      IMG 1209

      also consistent

      IMG 1210

      Mona ATTACKS!

      IMG 1211

      She's one tough alien cookie.

      IMG 1212

      That's new...

      IMG 1213

      Budding romance if you ask me. :

      ]
      IMG 1214

      Ok, well. Maybe if you ask many others besides me, too...

      IMG 1215

      See you soon, Ik'thaba! BOOYAKASHA! The End...

      And there you go. I just saved you guys five dollars. You're welcome :]

      I love this version of Mona Lisa,sad that many nostalgic fans of the 1987 series are complaining that she dosen't look like the 1987 Mona,lol.

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    • Mona is going to be a subject of turtle controversy for YEARS to come.

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    • Courage203 wrote: I Read this,but WHERE ARE APRIL AND CASEY!!!!

      IKR!?! They appeared in the clip so they were obviously in the episode. Shell, one of the things I was curious about for this episode was to how the two humans would interact with Ik'thba. Particularly Casey, since he is not used to seeing/interacting with too many mutants/aliens of the opposite gender aside from the hybrid April, who he tends to flirt with. And we already know how his last encounter with one went down.

      Karai kisses Casey

      Just don't try anything Jones. K?

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    • Facile plot. Shoehorned romance fed to the audience on a silver platter.

      This show seems to have abandoned the older trend of long developing relationships characters had to really work for, and replaced them with a plot-lazy form of speed dating that magically results in an instant perfect romance with appallingly few question marks.

      If you're going to write a shallow love interest, at least show that there are consequences for rushing in fast. Easy love with strangers is always initially infatuation. It can become more, but that takes time as well as characters really getting to know each other's flaws and rough edges. It's one of those kinds of plot elements that, even in a fantasy setting, works best when it is actually believable.

      It would be one thing if this show had made things easy for the audience from day one. But this show used to make the audience sit through multiple episodes of plot development to earn character milestones. There were times it actually made a decent chick flick or guy cry story. You had to see characters' feelings genuinely go through the wringer.

      So that moments of true closeness were all the sweeter and more believable when know how hard characters had to struggle to earn them.

      Leo and Karai never quite reached that point. Donnie and April have made some achievements, but they still have a way to go. (Casey is just plain annoying and doesn't make it easy for you to sympathize with him or feel him truly suffering.) Raph and Slash had one of the hardest roads, and then, for the most part, plot crickets as the writers seemed to forget what they went through. Mikey and Leatherhead wonderfully demonstrated how absence makes the heart grow fonder.

      By contrast, Mikey and Renet did nothing to earn their instant, easy romance plot. And if Raph and Mona Lisa turn out to be no deeper, it will insult the legacy of what was formerly one of the best developed characters in the series.

      However it happens, characters need to go through a crucible that affirms their relationships. Something we can believe and relate to. It's the same reason we like challenging video games, because incredibly easy games can feel insulting to play.

      Nick, stop babying your audience with cheap writing. You're looking plain incompetent compared to what IDW has done with the comic reboot and New Animated Adventures and Amazing Adventures, and New Animated Adventures still managed to have some really good writing even while Nick at the time had forbidden IDW from running any stories that risked contradicting the TV show's canon.

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    • Gilgameshkun
      Gilgameshkun removed this reply because:
      Double post.
      19:51, October 29, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Just looks like a basic meet cute to me, plus it the kids book adaptation and it feels...a tad premature to be judging the episode based solely on that. "Raph makes it with a salamander lady- THEN THEY LEAVE!" Kinda hard to space that out into 21 minutes.

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Do not read past this unless you want spoilers. Take heed, people. This your only warning!



      Yeah it's probably not as big a deal as I made it sound because some of you may have already seen this. Just a few screenshots of the book based on this episode.

      Image l

      Can't wait for this scene. This will be too HYPE!

      IMG 1206-1-

      Explains the crash

      IMG 1207-1-

      Shows the crash

      IMG 1208-1-

      Consistent with the clip

      IMG 1209

      also consistent

      IMG 1210

      Mona ATTACKS!

      IMG 1211

      She's one tough alien cookie.

      IMG 1212

      That's new...

      IMG 1213

      Budding romance if you ask me. :

      ]
      IMG 1214

      Ok, well. Maybe if you ask many others besides me, too...

      IMG 1215

      See you soon, Ik'thaba! BOOYAKASHA! The End...

      And there you go. I just saved you guys five dollars. You're welcome :]

      dude,I see The New Clip of The Moons of Thalos 3,The Book is not The episode Right? Maybe Sal is Good Salamander,I have GIFs .

      Tumblr nwzu5w9Jxq1r2nvplo2 500
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    • Gilgameshkun wrote: Facile plot. Shoehorned romance fed to the audience on a silver platter.

      This show seems to have abandoned the older trend of long developing relationships characters had to really work for, and replaced them with a plot-lazy form of speed dating that magically results in an instant perfect romance with appallingly few question marks.

      If you're going to write a shallow love interest, at least show that there are consequences for rushing in fast. Easy love with strangers is always initially infatuation. It can become more, but that takes time as well as characters really getting to know each other's flaws and rough edges. It's one of those kinds of plot elements that, even in a fantasy setting, works best when it is actually believable.

      It would be one thing if this show had made things easy for the audience from day one. But this show used to make the audience sit through multiple episodes of plot development to earn character milestones. There were times it actually made a decent chick flick or guy cry story. You had to see characters' feelings genuinely go through the wringer.

      So that moments of true closeness were all the sweeter and more believable when know how hard characters had to struggle to earn them.

      Leo and Karai never quite reached that point. Donnie and April have made some achievements, but they still have a way to go. (Casey is just plain annoying and doesn't make it easy for you to sympathize with him or feel him truly suffering.) Raph and Slash had one of the hardest roads, and then, for the most part, plot crickets as the writers seemed to forget what they went through. Mikey and Leatherhead wonderfully demonstrated how absence makes the heart grow fonder.

      By contrast, Mikey and Renet did nothing to earn their instant, easy romance plot. And if Raph and Mona Lisa turn out to be no deeper, it will insult the legacy of what was formerly one of the best developed characters in the series.

      However it happens, characters need to go through a crucible that affirms their relationships. Something we can believe and relate to. It's the same reason we like challenging video games, because incredibly easy games can feel insulting to play.

      Nick, stop babying your audience with cheap writing. You're looking plain incompetent compared to what IDW has done with the comic reboot and New Animated Adventures and Amazing Adventures, and New Animated Adventures still managed to have some really good writing even while Nick at the time had forbidden IDW from running any stories that risked contradicting the TV show's canon.

      Yeah, I agree. As hard as I ship Raph and Mona Lisa, I don't want them to just be thrown together in one episode and have the goo goo eyes for each other by the end of it. And for the record, yes. Mikey and Renet is and utter and complete disappointment. They were given no depth at all. Mikey's whole philosophy of why he loves Renet is "She looks pretty" (which she doesn't even) but still. Like you say, I want them to earn each other's trust and companionship over time. Raph should at first try to grasp the fact that he has strong feelings for a girl that he has witnessed in his brothers but he himself never felt before and try to cope with it, perhaps even try to dismiss it to no avail. And Mona should also be hesitant at first as well, knowing that having feelings for an alien she has never met prior can be dangerous, especially when she is a militant of the Salamandarians. In her mind, Raph could be a spy or operative of the Triceratons. Their relationship should start with bitterness and mistrust that will eventually become love and compassion.

      That said, I still have hope for this episode. First of all, This episode is off to a great start in our case if you ask me. As we saw in the clip, Sal Commander respected the turtles and commended them for their courage, but Mona Lisa said, and I quote "They must be destroyed". Secondly, those screenshots I showed were pretty much everything in that book concerning the episode and I'm pretty sure you can skim through that in like 2 minutes at most. We will have 20 more minutes of episode to watch. Anything can happen. Obviously, Raph and Mona Lisa are the hotheads of their teams, which will cause them to get into an unnecessary fight despite them both having good intentions. I'm almost positive that after she takes out the other three turtles, she and Raph's fight will get themselves lost and into a jam, forcing them to work together to survive the extreme temperatures of a moon of Thalos and dreaded ice dragon that threatens them, all while the turtles and Sal Commander are still looking for them. Surviving a traumatic experience like that with only one person by your side can give you intense emotional feelings for that person that are not easy to ignore. Which may explain the way the two were looking at each other in the end when they promise to meet again. Their emotions may have been provoked, but as time passes, they may become more cautious before they become much closer. But that might not even happen in the episode so, it's just my speculation if it does happen.

      As you can probably tell by my profile pic, I ship BBRae from "Teen Titans" and "Teen Titans Go!" I originally shipped BBStar, but as the show progressed, BBRae seemed more convincing and enticing. And this is mainly because TT built many episodes around Beast Boy and Raven's growing relationship and dealing with each other opposite personalities to the point where they seem to hate each other's guts. But in the later seasons it shows how they have grown as teammates and deeply care for one another to the point where they can't seem to do without. And that made it all thee more satisfying when BBRae became canon in TTG. Because the writers (David Slack in particular) have built them up for so long and never just got them together already! So I'm glad that BBRae has it's moment now. THEY ACTUALLY KISSED! YAY!

      And although Raph and Mona Lisa seem to have the same general personality as opposed to the opposite personalities of BBRae, I still would like a similar telling for RaphaLisa.

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    • Courage203 wrote: dude,I see The New Clip of The Moons of Thalos 3,The Book is not The episode Right? Maybe Sal is Good Salamander,I have GIFs .

      Tumblr nwzu5w9Jxq1r2nvplo2 500

      DUDE! Where did you find the clip!?! I want to see it!

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    • Tumblr nwzu5w9Jxq1r2nvplo2 500
      it Not a Clip Only a Gif I found him on tumblr I Have Another Gifs ;)
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    • Clips are on the site, and dear lord is that kids book off.

      Keith David Salamander be like: Those dudes are pretty cool for not crying like bitches. I'm Keith David!

      But Mona be like: NOPE, kill em! SEND EM TO THE NEXUS!

      Yeah, to say she's a loose adaptation of the original Mona Lisa is a BIT of an understatement.

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    • UltimateTitan6
      UltimateTitan6 removed this reply because:
      easier
      21:21, October 29, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • @Yoshimickster LOL Yeah. That was freaking hilarious. The Mona Lisa we knew is dead (sort of).

      @Courage203 Can you link me those GIFs?

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    • Yoshimickster wrote: Just looks like a basic meet cute to me, plus it the kids book adaptation and it feels...a tad premature to be judging the episode based solely on that. "Raph makes it with a salamander lady- THEN THEY LEAVE!" Kinda hard to space that out into 21 minutes.

      It's true, I may be premature. But my expectations reflect my more recent experiences with this show. It's a loss of faith, where eager optimism becomes cynical pessimism.

      I'm trying not to be too overboard on this. But I realized, I really did love this show once. A person who has made 1000+ GIFs of this show as I have, doesn't do so just out of boredom, after all. So the show still needs to be held to the higher standards that it had once actually set.

      I just hope what I say is more valuable and valid-point-making than just annoying. XD

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    • @UltimateTitan6 Yeah, though technically she's been dead for...QUITE a while, but because she was supposed to have a more important role the fanbase deemed her their queen.

      @Gilgameshkun Well I say replace that cynical pessimism with cautious optimism! This isn't Sinfest, its NINJA TURTLES! There's a chance it might become what you like again!

      And 1000 really? Where do you find the time?

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    • What's Sinfest? I don't know what you mean by that. I'm not actually wanting a show that is totally trashy, if that's what you mean.

      And I made the time. The vast majority of the 2012 series GIFs you'll find on this wiki are made by me.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      What's Sinfest? I don't know what you mean by that. I'm not actually wanting a show that is totally trashy, if that's what you mean.

      And I made the time. The vast majority of the 2012 series GIFs you'll find on this wiki are made by me.

      Sinfest was a comic that used to be brilliant satire that mocked all facets of life, but in later years became white knight feminist propaganda. I KNOW when a series is far from saving, and 2K12 ain't even CLOSE to that.

      And all right then.

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    • UltimateTitan6:

      I'm glad you understand. Still, not sure I'll have the heart to watch the episode at all.

      The whole Raph and Slash arc made a stronger impression on me than most anything on screen has made on me in a long time. Perhaps nothing since the 2005 romantic comedy anime film, Arashi no Yoru ni, which is still near and dear to me. By the time season 2 ended, I already shipped Raph and Slash (Slaph) with absolute certainty, and so did my other gay TMNT fan friends (as well as many a fangirl on deviantART: [1][2][3][4][5][6][7][8][9]). I thought this story arc was one of the best things to come out of the entire series.

      And it's not just Raph and Slash together, but also all those other episodes developing Raph himself as a "big sister" character who had such an intuitive understanding of the minds of women while simultaneously being so indifferent to their presence. And on top of that, he could effortlessly tease and cat like a fantastic alpha rhymes-with-witch, even while never making us forget that he was still indeed a guy. Raph went beyond being an "ambiguously gay" character to really feeling like "one of us." Even in The Alien Agenda where Raph acknowledged that Leo thought Karai was hot, it felt more like Raph subtly teasing Leo like he had previously done all episode, rather than a personal agreement that Karai was hot. (In Raph's position, I might have told Leo the same thing. XD) And best of all, Raph was portrayed in a refreshingly unstereotypical fashion, making him all the more relatable and respectable for it.

      After all that, any Raphalisa romance in this particular series will feel uncomfortably manufactured. It's just not the Raph I got to know and care about. Of course, that's the risk you run with a fictional character‚ÄĒthe way they're written doesn't always stay consistent over time, especially when a whole committee of different writers and planners are involved and constantly changing their minds.

      So, this gives us the paradox where the new plot may indeed be realistic for Raph, but only because the Raph we see now isn't quite the Raph we knew even 12 months ago. He's a rescripted, retooled version. And he may indeed again become a finely, deeply developed character in his own right, but that won't change the fact that he will still fundamentally be a different character who happens to look and sound the same as a character I remembered. That's not easy to contemplate.

      Anyway, you can see my special gallery devoted to all the gaydar-tripping moments in the series. Marked mature only because I say the word that rhymes-with-witch, and marked as fanwork because much of it is a personal essay and many of the GIFs are annotated with my own commentary. Other than that, it's not actually mature or fanwork, as it documents stuff that's already on the show.

      Yoshimickster: For that matter, nearly all my GIFs can be found here. It is a directory of many separate GIF gallery pages stored as subpages of my own user space (User:Gilgameshkun/), and they all show the GIFs at full size and annotated with dialogue. The gallery I just linked UltimateTitan6 is just one of those many pages. You and everyone else on the wiki are welcome to use any of them‚ÄĒin other articles, in other discussion pages, plaster them all over Tumblr, do whatever you want!¬†:)

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    • All I can say is that the cool street-smart, a**kicking Mona Lisa is gone for good and replaced by a 'we must kill them because they are not our people'¬†military¬†stereotype. I could be wrong but that's the vibe I'm going from the clips.


      I swear I'll be done with this show if they give Raph and Mona Lisa a cr*p romance. 

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    • Tarrlok's the REAL Hero wrote: I swear I'll be done with this show if they give Raph and Mona Lisa a cr*p romance.¬†

      There's still Amazing Adventures. :) The writing is much better, Splinter's still alive, and even Pigeon Pete is getting character development.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:

      There's still Amazing Adventures. :) The writing is much better, Splinter's still alive, and even Pigeon Pete is getting character development.

      It seems like a step up from the TV Show, I'll have to keep an eye on it.

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    • Tarrlok's the REAL Hero wrote:

      Gilgameshkun wrote:

      There's still Amazing Adventures. :) The writing is much better, Splinter's still alive, and even Pigeon Pete is getting character development.

      It seems like a step up from the TV Show, I'll have to keep an eye on it.

      To be honest, even New Animated Adventures (since cancelled and replaced with Amazing Adventures) had some good writing too. It just wasn't allowed to run any stories where the turtles ended doing anything that would have permanent consequences to the 2K12 universe. It was basically a string of filler plots, in the same vein as Cockroach Terminator, Parasitica, Invasion of the Squirrelanoids, Mazes & Mutants, etc.

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    • Welp...Raph is a masochist...I am cool with this.

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:
      Welp...Raph is a masochist...I am cool with this.

      Me too dude, uh...me too XD

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    • Love at first sight? Lame, now love at first PUNCH is where a healthy relationship starts!

      Let's just hope THIS Mona Lisa actually comes back like she's implied to. Peeps are STILL complaining about the lack of Mona in the first cartoon.

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    • Tarrlok's the REAL Hero
      Tarrlok's the REAL Hero removed this reply because:
      This was a silly rant.
      22:38, November 1, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Tarrlok's the REAL Hero wrote:
      I just watched the episode and I'm done with this TMNT series. That was the worst peice of romance I've seen in a while (I skipped the episodes with Ranet so I didn't see her and Mikey). Also, why didn't they just make Raph a women in this version! (since they can't put a gay character in the show) He's clearly more like a woman than a man. Last, why the h*ll would they put a masochist in a TV-Y7 show? Just why?


      I'm off to read Amazing Adventures.

      So your for gay characters...and gender constraints? How does THAT work?

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    • Tarrlok's the REAL Hero wrote: I just watched the episode and I'm done with this TMNT series. That was the worst peice of romance I've seen in a while (I skipped the episodes with Ranet so I didn't see her and Mikey). Also, why didn't they just make Raph a women in this version! (since they can't put a gay character in the show) He's clearly more like a woman than a man. Last, why the h*ll would they put a masochist in a TV-Y7 show? Just why?


      I'm off to read Amazing Adventures.

      So it sounds like I was right to skip this episode. XD

      But, in 2015, you'd think they still wouldn't be so allergic to having openly gay characters in TV shows. Openly gay people are married. Openly gay people are raising families. Openly gay people have state holidays in California (Harvey Milk Day) and are role models. It took until the early 1990s for a majority of Americans to approve of interracial relationships, but the majority approval of gay relationships is already here. Children need positive, G-rated openly gay role models in their popular entertainment, so they understand all the more that gay people are like everyone else.

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    • Its a lot better than he or I said, Mona was freaking BAD ASS!¬†

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    • Good character development is far more important than badassery. If a character is cheaply written, their attempts at badassery are just action-porn.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Good character development is far more important than badassery. If a character is cheaply written, their attempts at badassery are just action-porn.

      Trust me, she is written WAY better than Renet, as well as the episode.

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:
      gender constraints

      There is a differance between gender constrains and gender habits. Raph shows female gender habits, which would mean he would be gay or bi in a TV show for older people.

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:

      Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Good character development is far more important than badassery. If a character is cheaply written, their attempts at badassery are just action-porn.

      Trust me, she is written WAY better than Renet, as well as the episode.

      Saying she was better than a much, much worse example doesn't necessarily mean anything if she was still cheaply written.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:

      So it sounds like I was right to skip this episode. XD

      Yeah, never watch is this episode. Besides Mona Lisa kicking ice dragon *ss there was no reason to watch it.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:

      Trust me, she is written WAY better than Renet, as well as the episode.

      Saying she was better than a much, much worse example doesn't necessarily mean anything if she was still cheaply written.

      I don't think she was cheaply written at all, in fact her and Raph are probably the only romantic relationship in this show I actually one hundred percent like. The Donnie/Casey love battle is annoying, Leo/Karai honestly feels a bit one sided, Renet and Mikey while cute was a joke, Raph and Mona felt like real start to something.

      Also if you watch it, I know what we're going to argue about next but I'll wait. 

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    • Tarrlok's the REAL Hero wrote:

      Yoshimickster wrote:
      gender constraints

      There is a differance between gender constrains and gender habits. Raph shows female gender habits, which would mean he would be gay or bi in a TV show for older people.

      Well, it's not as simple as him being gay or bi. I mean, yes, indeed, Raph (as he used to be written) is probably gay (after all that sexual tension with Slash and his previous indifference to women). But now we also understand that transgender people exist (gender dysphoria), and people can actually have a gender identity opposite of their biological gender, and if they love the same biological gender, they are actually hetero. Though, paradoxically, there certainly are transgender people who love the same identity gender, and are gay, even though a similarity-situated non-transgender person would be hetero.

      But as for another matter, why does it have to just be for older people anymore? When I was 11 in the early 1990s growing up on Kwajalein, I had a perfectly decent openly gay role model. He was a good friend of my mom (may she rest in peace), and he was perfectly ordinary and I never saw him doing or saying anything inappropriate. He even gave me my first personal computer, his old Tandy 1000 (a primitive semi-compatible PC), as a hand-me-down. And I wasn't clueless‚ÄĒI knew what gay was. It's people who, when they fall in love, only have feelings for someone of the same gender instead of the opposite gender. It's sad that this was so ordinary in my home community almost a quarter of a century ago, and yet life on mainstream popular all-ages entertainment still can't manage to reflect that.

      When it comes to TV shows, a good role model for children would be Degrassi, where characters are more varied and complex (with gay and lesbian youths and even transgender youths), but in so many ways they're also still largely ordinary, and more often than not they believe in good things. My mom loved Degrassi for these very reasons. And that series airs on TeenNick, so we know Nick is not ignorant to this. :P

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    • THANK you Gil, if there's one lesson Steven Universe teaches us is that gender and sexuality are not black and white.

      We definitely DO need more gay role models, but I'm not gonna hold it against Ciro Nieli for not making Raph gay.

      But on the subject after thinking it over I can see Slash as gay...but not so much Raph. I see it of it was one of those, unrequited love deals. Plus Slash calls him brother in later episodes, so either he sees him as a brother after his first appearance or has given up on romance but doesn't want to lose the one person he cares about most. And well, that happens! Gay people fall for straight people, straight people fall for gay people, and sometimes when they try to romance said friend you end up LOSING them, but they were able to keep that friendship, even becoming brothers in arms. 

      Final note I'm...on the fence on Degrassi. I saw one ep where there was a new girl at school, who one of the main characters didn't like, and after they befriended her SHE REVEALS that she's a boy-friend stealer and asked who to stay away from. So were the previous seasons better than what I saw, was that like the next generation or something? Because who BOY was that bad.

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    • Well people, I am overjoyed to say that I finally got what I have been asking for from this show for a long time with this episode: A female, non-ninja character that can whip the turtles in physical combat. And yes, G'thrakka was also pretty cool and formidable but Mona Lisa beat the SHELL out of these turtles and made them look like amateur's (and of course swatted away April and Casey like they're nothing of course). And I LOVE that this is the reason Raph is attracted to her. He finally met someone who can beat him down and look good doing it. She barely even used her sword against them, mostly just her Salamandarian millitary training to make up for her smaller stature compared to Neutralizer and G'thrakka. Tbh I think Donnie got the worst of it, especially when she¬†cracked¬†his¬†his shelly¬†walnuts (wink wink). All jokes aside though, Mona's introduction was much better than I expected.¬†Her personality¬†kind of reminds me of Leonardo from the 2K3 series. You know, the one that couldn't go an episode without saying the word "Honor" for awhile. Although she isn't a ninja, her actions and dialogue suggest that she holds "ninja" values, making her seem somewhat akin to the turtles.

      The writers did a good job in this one. Raphael and Mona Lisa's relationship was deveIoped very well in this episode. I loved that Raphael initially treated her like any other villain, but when she knocked him down he was all like "OMG i think i'm in love with this girl". It felt a bit like how BBRae's relationship developed. Where Raph repeatedly tried to compromise with Mona Lisa and she kept shutting him down, even though she liked him back. I also found it interesting that in this version, Raphael gives her the name, and adorable that he told her that the name is of the most beautifhul lady in art. So in a way, i guess Raph added her to his Renaissance-inspired named family. Who knew Raph read books. The ending really sealed the deal for me though. I got the chills (no pun intended) when Raph and Mona are sitting together dying from lack of oxygen and Raph says "Mona, I want to tell you how i feel" and Mona says "Don't worry Raphael, I already know".

      Casey's reaction to the kiss was hilarious! Mainly because it's natural human reaction to seeing two strange humanoid creatures just making out like that. THAT was comedy gold! Even though it was off screen, I think this is the second mouth to mouth kiss in this show after Karai/Casey. With Raphael being emotionally attached to her, coupled with Leo saying he'll see her again someday, gives me a good feeling that this isn't the last time we'll see her.

      I'm actually looking forward to seeing more of Mona Lisa. I am not joking when I say she is one of my new favorite characters/allies.

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:
      Gilgameshkun wrote:

      Trust me, she is written WAY better than Renet, as well as the episode.

      Saying she was better than a much, much worse example doesn't necessarily mean anything if she was still cheaply written.
      I don't think she was cheaply written at all, in fact her and Raph are probably the only romantic relationship in this show I actually one hundred percent like. The Donnie/Casey love battle is annoying, Leo/Karai honestly feels a bit one sided, Renet and Mikey while cute was a joke, Raph and Mona felt like real start to something.

      Also if you watch it, I know what we're going to argue about next but I'll wait. .

      @Yoshimickster I agee 100 percent . This relationship is the only one that seems like it will avail to anything.

      @gilgameshkun: Trust me G-kun just watch the episode THIS Mona is far from cheaply written.

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    • Gilgameshkun
      Gilgameshkun removed this reply because:
      Unnecessary.
      05:10, November 2, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • This isn't the Raph I got to know. This is some manchild 1987 fanboy's Raph. (I can barely stand the 1987 TV series as it is.) Raph once made it clear that, in spite of trying to remain more loyal to his brothers, Slash was still the one thing he cherished most. The Invasion, Part 2 was a fantastic lead-up to what could have been had they reunited. And then, plot crickets. Whatever this universe now is, it's a different one than we saw before, and this discontinuity royally sucks. This isn't plot‚ÄĒit's ascended bad fanfiction.

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    • Giglamesh give it a rest man... they aren't gay, you need to accept that.

      Mikey treats Leatherhead like a pet - what was he before the Kraang got to him? A pet... Mikey acts that way with Leatherhead... like a boy and his dog.

      Raph treats Slash like he treats his own brothers, he cares deeply for Slash but it is not romance... and for the record, it was never established anywhere that Raph cherishes Slash most... you my friend are simply projecting.

      The turtles are not gay, they may feel fondness towards other male characters, but it is a familial love and no more - as is the case when they have all been sexually attracted to female characters.

      Regardless of what you think should be or how you feel... those are the facts. So please, have your complaints about the show, but can you give the homosexual relationships a rest please... its like Donnie and April... its not worth talking about.

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    • I don't know about you guys but I'm all aboard the RaphxMona ship!!! Woot Wooooot!!!

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    • I think the scream I emitted when she kissed him was too high to be heard by human ears XD

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    • This episode was alright... there was some pretty bad writing at times... I can't think of the exact moments off the top of my head, but moments had me rolling my eyes, or just being like, ugh, they're really going with that... alright... anyways, I learnt to not expect so much from this show since Season 3... All in all, I still think this was better than most of what season 3 had to offer... so that's a plus in my books.

      I will say, this episode had some cool fight scenes, what with the Salamandreans (?) fighting the way they did, with tail and cool weapons... so that was enjoyable for sure. The Ice Dragons was meh... Is Igithba so hard to say Raph? but I'll admit Mona Lisa was pretty smooth ;)

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    • It's actually stranger to treat a fully-grown humanoid bipedal person like a pet. I can think of two situations where someone treats another sentient person like a pet‚ÄĒwhen they ultimately don't respect that person as an equal, or when they're being kinky. Mikey does neither with Leatherhead.

      Raph cherished Slash most because his most cherished possession was a photo of him.

      My friends and I pegged Mikey as bisexual, and Raph as gay, especially considering Raph's indifference to women.

      And "homosexual" is not considered a very respectful word anymore, and is often quite offensive. It's too clinical and distancing at best, and has been made more derogatory because mainstream society largely no longer uses it while anti-gay people continue to do so. Please use the words "gay" (specifically) or "LGBT" (broadly), and not "homosexual."

      And please maintain a respectful tone. And I can hear your condescending tone half a world away.

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    • ShellBrain wrote:

      I will say, this episode had some cool fight scenes, what with the Salamandreans (?) fighting the way they did, with tail and cool weapons... so that was enjoyable for sure. The Ice Dragons was meh... Is Igithba so hard to say Raph? but I'll admit Mona Lisa was pretty smooth ;)

      I'm betting he could, his inner smooth-talker just took over he ability to pronounce alien names.

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    • This episode is amazing and Mona too.

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    • Sugilita wrote:
      This episode is amazing and Mona too.

      ikr. She is so awesome! Mona Lisa is such a great fighter and ally in this show. She's definitely one of my new favorite characters in the show :]

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    • Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      I don't know about you guys but I'm all aboard the RaphxMona ship!!! Woot Wooooot!!!

      I am also aboard that ship, my friend. And this episode was a great start for it. :]

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    • Straight up, unlike what...every other character was doing in waiting a million episodes for the "Perfect Moment". Mordecai did that-AND LOOK WHAT HAPPENED!

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    • Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      I think the scream I emitted when she kissed him was too high to be heard by human ears XD

      Lol I was exited too. Everyone else's reaction got me too. Casey twitched in disgust, April giggled, Leo and Donnie looked in shock, and Mikey smiled before G'thrakka covered his face. Classic, priceless, reactions :D

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:
      Straight up, unlike what...every other character was doing in waiting a million episodes for the "Perfect Moment". Mordecai did that-AND LOOK WHAT HAPPENED!

      True that!

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:
      Straight up, unlike what...every other character was doing in waiting a million episodes for the "Perfect Moment". Mordecai did that-AND LOOK WHAT HAPPENED!

      Yes,this Mona is way better than the boring 1987 Mona,and that kiss scene beautiful.

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    • Well, it's official. This series totally has a broken fanbase. There are obviously fans who love this episode for some of the exact same reason other fans hate this episode. By trying to become so much more like the divisive 1987 TV series instead of trying to remain its own creature, this series has only guaranteed this result.

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      I think the scream I emitted when she kissed him was too high to be heard by human ears XD
      Lol I was exited too. Everyone else's reaction got me too. Casey twitched in disgust, April giggled, Leo and Donnie looked in shock, and Mikey smiled before G'thrakka covered his face. Classic, priceless, reactions :D

      I hope the Raph fangirls will not flame Mona Lisa. XD

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    • Gilgameshkun
      Gilgameshkun removed this reply because:
      Unnecessary.
      05:10, November 2, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Sugilita wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      I think the scream I emitted when she kissed him was too high to be heard by human ears XD
      Lol I was exited too. Everyone else's reaction got me too. Casey twitched in disgust, April giggled, Leo and Donnie looked in shock, and Mikey smiled before G'thrakka covered his face. Classic, priceless, reactions :D
      I hope the Raph fangirls will not flame Mona Lisa. XD

      Sorry girls. This turtle is taken. XD

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Gag...

      You're overreacting.

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Sugilita wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      I think the scream I emitted when she kissed him was too high to be heard by human ears XD
      Lol I was exited too. Everyone else's reaction got me too. Casey twitched in disgust, April giggled, Leo and Donnie looked in shock, and Mikey smiled before G'thrakka covered his face. Classic, priceless, reactions :D
      I hope the Raph fangirls will not flame Mona Lisa. XD
      Sorry girls. This turtle is taken. XD

      Gilga is seriously overreacting.But there are other versions of Raph who are single. XD

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    • No, I'm reacting quite appropriately. It turned out worse than I thought it would be. This is trash. My favorite TV series has become trash. You think that's not going to affect me accordingly?

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    • Okay, so after calming down and remembering this show is for young children I can say it was nice to see a couple not wait around and become like the rest of the couples in this show. I didn't like¬†Igithba very much (I'll admit Raph nick-naming her was cute). The action was fun, but I didn't like the Turtles getting beaten again.¬†About Raph acting more like a woman than a man, it's a classic joke for tough guys to become more woman-like when meeting their love interest. I don't care for this type of joke, but it is what happened.

      In the end I don't think I'll continue watching the show unless the writing becomes more like Season 1.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      No, I'm reacting quite appropriately. It turned out worse than I thought it would be. This is trash. My favorite TV series has become trash. You think that's not going to affect me accordingly?

      Watch the later seasons of Family Guy, THAT's trash compared to the first few seasons. I say this knowing how insulting I may be, but dude, you are way too cynical.

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:
      Gilgameshkun wrote:
      No, I'm reacting quite appropriately. It turned out worse than I thought it would be. This is trash. My favorite TV series has become trash. You think that's not going to affect me accordingly?
      Watch the later seasons of Family Guy, THAT's trash compared to the first few seasons. I say this knowing how insulting I may be, but dude, you are way too cynical.

      Yes,very cynical. :/

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:


      THANK you Gil, if there's one lesson Steven Universe teaches us is that gender and sexuality are not black and white.
      We definitely DO need more gay role models, but I'm not gonna hold it against Ciro Nieli for not making Raph gay.

      But on the subject after thinking it over I can see Slash as gay...but not so much Raph. I see it of it was one of those, unrequited love deals. Plus Slash calls him brother in later episodes, so either he sees him as a brother after his first appearance or has given up on romance but doesn't want to lose the one person he cares about most. And well, that happens! Gay people fall for straight people, straight people fall for gay people, and sometimes when they try to romance said friend you end up LOSING them, but they were able to keep that friendship, even becoming brothers in arms. 

      Final note I'm...on the fence on Degrassi. I saw one ep where there was a new girl at school, who one of the main characters didn't like, and after they befriended her SHE REVEALS that she's a boy-friend stealer and asked who to stay away from. So were the previous seasons better than what I saw, was that like the next generation or something? Because who BOY was that bad.

      Speaking of Steven Universe,the show might get shut down because of this.

      [1]

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    • Well, that was good, actually. I liked the little romance between Raph and Mona, and I especially like Mona's character. She is just so cool. I do believe that we'll be seeing her again. Hey, maybe I will jump on the RaphXMona ship as well. MAYbe. The fight scenes were good, but I wish the turtles didn't get beaten up so easily, and I hope their skills improve later on. Also, like what someone else said, the Ice Dragons were meh, as they were not so original. Overall, the episode was not perfect, and the writers do have areas they need to improve on, but it was still a good episode to me, nonetheless.

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    • This show being for young children may have always been part of the problem. It's about teenagers, which they tried to make more realistically like teenagers in season 1. Perhaps a show like this should have been for teenagers. I don't care if a show for young children sells more toys. If the writing's crap‚ÄĒand fast moving romances without consequences are crap‚ÄĒthen the show will be crap.

      That said, I know it's not impossible for a show for young children to have good writing. It's just easy to fall into the trap of writing increasingly dumbed-down plots when you keep trying to keep target an age group made up of young people who keep aging out of that age group year after year. If the show's writing irreversibly suffers as a consequence of the drive to target ever younger, then it really needs to be cancelled and put out of its misery.

      And 37-going-on-7 isn't any better a target audience either‚ÄĒit's even worse, because most normal 7 year olds eventually grow up, and 37 year olds who still act like 7 year olds are incapable of growing up.

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    • I never said I wasn't being cynical.

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    • I think it's time for a new topic. Someone should make a topic where we talk about what we like about the 2012 series.

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    • Yoshimickster
      Yoshimickster removed this reply because:
      a
      23:16, November 1, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Tarrlok's the REAL Hero wrote:
      I think it's time for a new topic. Someone should make a topic where we talk about what we like about the 2012 series.

      Agreed, this conversation leaves too much venom in my mouth.

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    • I liked plenty of things. ...they're just gone now.

      It also occurs to me that every long-running TMNT series has come to this point where some of its fanbase start loathing it. Even for 1987 series fans, it seems the lightning rod was the European vacation season. (And then there's the Mirage fans who never warmed to that series in the first place.) For 2003 series fans, it was Fast Forward. For 2012 series fans, the dividing line is somewhere in the 3rd season, though some of my friends became disgusted with the frat-house-ish North Hampton arc, and some of them became disgusted with what the show came after Battle for New York.

      I think it might be better for everyone around if we acknowledge and accept that this was likely going to happen, and that the fandom of this show was going to split along increasingly volatile fault lines. I know there are still going to be people who love this show's new episodes. Likewise, there are still going to be people for whom this once beloved series has become one of the things they most despise. And yet we all still have to work together on this wiki.

      You know, I didn't want to become too cynical, but there came a point when I inescapably realized there was simply no more enjoyment in this show. Does that mean I'm no longer a TMNT fan? Hardly. I loves tons of TMNT stuff. But just like other times popular TMNT works have hit what was seen as a really, really bad spell, you can't expect people not to feel cynical about things like this. Nothing about this series will be simple again‚ÄĒnot in the fandom, not on comment forums, not on this wiki.

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:

      Tarrlok's the REAL Hero wrote:
      I think it's time for a new topic. Someone should make a topic where we talk about what we like about the 2012 series.

      Agreed, this conversation leaves too much venom in my mouth.

      Yeah, I don't think that venom is going to go away... Simply not talking about anything divisive is really not going to work out. I've been in enough Star Fox discussions and sat through enough epic flame holy wars between diametrically opposed fans to know that's impossible. The new trick is how fans who increasingly have less and less in common can still find a way to coexist in civility. And that's always tricky. Sometimes fans need to find a way to periodically gather in their own circles and talk amongst themselves about inescapably divisive fan topics. Maybe with disclaimers like, "If you're not a fan of XYZ, this conversation may not be for you." After all, this wiki isn't "Turtlepedia for a certain kind of fan"‚ÄĒit's just "Turtlepedia," edited by all its different fans.

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    • Think of it this way. A kind of role reversal. If this series at this point had gone a very different route, it might still be a show I love, but some of us might have started hating the show for the same reasons I loved it. And if you really cared about the show's development in your own way, might you also find yourself feeling increasingly alienated? And yet, you'd still probably be a TMNT fan.

      There's really no need for fake Bizarro world storylines. Ordinary people trying to overcome ordinary massive differences is more than enough of a challenge, and it's a challenge that happens every single day.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      There's really no need for fake Bizarro world storylines. Ordinary people trying to overcome ordinary massive differences is more than enough of a challenge, and it's a challenge that happens every single day.

      ...wait explain this last sentence here, are you talking about the more fantastic space aspects or what.

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    • No, you mentioned Bizarro plot elements in...I guess it was a different thread. XD

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    • I really enjoyed the episode and I just knew that Mona Lisa would become Rapheal's love interest. I thought it was kinda obvious and I loved the scenes they shared together, I think those two r really both cute and great together.

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    • Well, as I was trying to say...you're right that these kinds of disagreements leave venom in people's mouths. But I also have enough experience in fan communities to know it won't go away. So instead of arguing so much we make each other's fandom lives miserable, we need to come up with a new arrangement of some kind.

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    • Sbrady538 wrote:
      I really enjoyed the episode and I just knew that Mona Lisa would become Rapheal's love interest. I thought it was kinda obvious and I loved the scenes they shared together, I think those two r really both cute and great together.

      Me too, friend. Those two were made for each other.

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:

      Sbrady538 wrote:
      I really enjoyed the episode and I just knew that Mona Lisa would become Rapheal's love interest. I thought it was kinda obvious and I loved the scenes they shared together, I think those two r really both cute and great together.

      Me too, friend. Those two were made for each other.

      Couldn't agree more, those two r just perfect together since they r so much like. :)

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    • Funniest part for me?


      Mona Lisa: Let me say it for you, in our language: RAWWWWRAWWR 


      XD

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    • Lol That was hilarious! Also that secret handshake thing that Leo did with G'thrakka.

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    • Gilgameshkun
      Gilgameshkun removed this reply because:
      Unnecessary.
      05:10, November 2, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Lol That was hilarious! Also that secret handshake thing that Leo did with G'thrakka.

      Yeah LAWL

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Oh barf... Raphalisa 2K12 is a crime against screenwriting. Please cancel this show posthaste and put it out of its misery before it does even more damage to TMNT mythology.

      Wow, you are one serious freakin' buzzkill.

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    • Well someone has to be!

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Well someone has to be!

      Dude, seriously, it's like you're trying to ruin the show for everyone else.

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    • ChristopherRedfield246 wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Lol That was hilarious! Also that secret handshake thing that Leo did with G'thrakka.
      Yeah LAWL

      But the funniest part for me, once again, would be the everyone's reactionto the kiss. That was comedy gold, HANDS DOWN!

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    • ChristopherRedfield246 wrote:
      Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Well someone has to be!
      Dude, seriously, it's like you're trying to ruin the show for everyone else.

      He is. Just don't let him get to you. At least most of us enjoyed this episode and don't troll those that disagree. I hardly even pay him attention anymore.

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    • ChristopherRedfield246 wrote:

      Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Well someone has to be!

      Dude, seriously, it's like you're trying to ruin the show for everyone else.

      It was already ruined. I just can't bear to witness a show I loved so much degrade into abject Twilightdom.

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    • ... I've been called many things before, but never a troll. Why can't more people just see how horrible this is?

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    • I keep trying to walk away from this show, and I can't. I don't want to both love it and hate it, but I can't seem to shake either one. Even after I lost faith in it getting better, I still found myself caring about it. I kept wishing and wishing and wishing that it would improve again, even after my other friends each dumped this series. I've tried to be a loyal fan even when it's gotten harder to be one. Is it too much to ask that a show I really loved just not be terrible? If it can't improve again, I at least would have wanted the show to die with dignity. Not live on like this.¬†:(

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      I don't know about you guys but I'm all aboard the RaphxMona ship!!! Woot Wooooot!!!
      I am also aboard that ship, my friend. And this episode was a great start for it. :]

      Totally, I especially love how it wasn't instant love, it took some getting to know each other, or more specifically, it took Mona kicking Raph's butt!!! XD

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Sugilita wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      I think the scream I emitted when she kissed him was too high to be heard by human ears XD
      Lol I was exited too. Everyone else's reaction got me too. Casey twitched in disgust, April giggled, Leo and Donnie looked in shock, and Mikey smiled before G'thrakka covered his face. Classic, priceless, reactions :D
      I hope the Raph fangirls will not flame Mona Lisa. XD
      Sorry girls. This turtle is taken. XD

      Lol my friend who loves Raph is not gonna be too happy!

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    • I think Raph and Mona Lisa getting hooked up so fast was an apology to the fans for the prolonged (does April like Donnie or Casey) or ruined (Karai is Leo's sister) romances of the past. I think I would have liked the couple if it had been two¬†episodes¬†long, not just one.

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    • I've made over 1000 GIFs for this series. I've heavily edited its articles over the past two or so years. I've practically memorized most every episode. I just want it to be good again. This...this is not good. If I'd wanted episodes like this, I'd just watch the awful 1987 series. I want the show I loved back. Give it back!¬†:(

      It's been at least a few years since I felt this much pain being a fan of something.

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    • Tarrlok's the REAL Hero wrote:
      I think Raph and Mona Lisa getting hooked up so fast was an apology to the fans for the prolonged (does April like Donnie or Casey) or ruined (Karai is Leo's sister) romances of the past. I think I would have liked the couple if it had been two episodes long, not just one.

      If they really want to apologize to us for something, they should reunite Karai with her true family and have her fight along side them like we've all been waiting for for like what? 3 years?

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    • Tarrlok's the REAL Hero: I like long romance arcs. But they need to progress and not stay stagnant at the same point for a long time. Still, if I had to choose, I'd take a long stagnant romance arc over a fast and easy romance arc‚ÄĒthose are so much worse.

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    • ChristopherRedfield246 wrote:
      Tarrlok's the REAL Hero wrote:
      I think Raph and Mona Lisa getting hooked up so fast was an apology to the fans for the prolonged (does April like Donnie or Casey) or ruined (Karai is Leo's sister) romances of the past. I think I would have liked the couple if it had been two episodes long, not just one.
      If they really want to apologize to us for something, they should reunite Karai with her true family and have her fight along side them like we've all been waiting for for like what? 3 years?

      Don't get me started on how they've treated Karai (and Timothy). I have never seen such a prolonged resolve in any story!

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    • Tarrlok's the REAL Hero wrote:
      ChristopherRedfield246 wrote:
      Tarrlok's the REAL Hero wrote:
      I think Raph and Mona Lisa getting hooked up so fast was an apology to the fans for the prolonged (does April like Donnie or Casey) or ruined (Karai is Leo's sister) romances of the past. I think I would have liked the couple if it had been two episodes long, not just one.
      If they really want to apologize to us for something, they should reunite Karai with her true family and have her fight along side them like we've all been waiting for for like what? 3 years?
      Don't get me started on how they've treated Karai (and Timothy). I have never seen such a prolonged resolve in any story!

      Well, they better do it sometime.

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    • ChristopherRedfield246 wrote:
      Tarrlok's the REAL Hero wrote:
      ChristopherRedfield246 wrote:
      Tarrlok's the REAL Hero wrote:
      I think Raph and Mona Lisa getting hooked up so fast was an apology to the fans for the prolonged (does April like Donnie or Casey) or ruined (Karai is Leo's sister) romances of the past. I think I would have liked the couple if it had been two episodes long, not just one.
      If they really want to apologize to us for something, they should reunite Karai with her true family and have her fight along side them like we've all been waiting for for like what? 3 years?
      Don't get me started on how they've treated Karai (and Timothy). I have never seen such a prolonged resolve in any story!
      Well, they better do it sometime. Before the end of the show.



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    • Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      I don't know about you guys but I'm all aboard the RaphxMona ship!!! Woot Wooooot!!!
      I am also aboard that ship, my friend. And this episode was a great start for it. :]
      Totally, I especially love how it wasn't instant love, it took some getting to know each other, or more specifically, it took Mona kicking Raph's butt!!! XD

      Shell yeah! She kicked their all shells in this one. Tbh I think Donnie got the worst of it, especially when Mona cracked his shelly walnuts (wink wink)

      And yeah my thoughts exactly. I was afraid that this was going to be like the Mikey/Renet syndrome. But this episode literally turned out perfect. Mona and Raph really grew on each other and developed throughout this episode while also not making us wait for them to get together. And I got chills for that last scene when the were both about to die. The fact that they kissed made me happy, and i keep saying this, but the others' reaction was TOO PRICELESS. I can't wait to see more of her and where these two lovebirds will go from here.

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    • You know, I don't know what to do anymore. I have very, very strong opinions about this series. I'm horrified by how it's going, and when I express that horror, I just end up being considered a nuisance or even a troll.

      But what else is there to be done? I've tried walking away. I still see signs of it everywhere, and I still care about what happens to it. When this show gets really bad, I still want to express that, because maybe I'm crazy enough to keep wishing it would somehow get better.

      When I see people gushing about how much they love a bad plot...it's like nails on a chalkboard, I just want to scream. It's like I've stepped out of a familiar fandom and into a completely alien fandom where bad writing is rewarded and bad characters are beloved.

      And I still follow other TMNT works, none of which have gotten this bad, but are still covered by this wiki. But the terrible stuff is still everywhere to be seen. What does someone do about that?

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    • ChristopherRedfield246 wrote:
      Tarrlok's the REAL Hero wrote:
      I think Raph and Mona Lisa getting hooked up so fast was an apology to the fans for the prolonged (does April like Donnie or Casey) or ruined (Karai is Leo's sister) romances of the past. I think I would have liked the couple if it had been two episodes long, not just one.
      If they really want to apologize to us for something, they should reunite Karai with her true family and have her fight along side them like we've all been waiting for for like what? 3 years?

      Lol I hated the Karai arc so bad because of how FREAKIN' LONG it was and had like no character development aside from Karai getting mutated and brain wormed, and Shredder adding Bebop and Rocksteady to his arsenal of hench mutants. That was basically it. Almost every episode of it felt like filler to me. Thank goodness that's over and we're on to something that's actually interesting. Good Riddance!

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    • Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Sugilita wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      I think the scream I emitted when she kissed him was too high to be heard by human ears XD
      Lol I was exited too. Everyone else's reaction got me too. Casey twitched in disgust, April giggled, Leo and Donnie looked in shock, and Mikey smiled before G'thrakka covered his face. Classic, priceless, reactions :D
      I hope the Raph fangirls will not flame Mona Lisa. XD
      Sorry girls. This turtle is taken. XD
      Lol my friend who loves Raph is not gonna be too happy!

      Lol XD  XD

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    • Tarrlok's the REAL Hero wrote: Don't get me started on how they've treated Karai (and Timothy). I have never seen such a prolonged resolve in any story!

      I completely forgot about that poor soul who became the Mutagen Man. Please writers, sometime after this arc, have Donnie find a cure for him. That was such a sad story. :(

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    • Speaking of Timothy, it is rather sad that they did not go back to him yet and that they haven't focused on him for a while now. I mean, Donnie managed to create some anti-mutagen before. Why couldn't he have made and used some anti-mutagen on Timothy before? I mean, I'd thought they'd get this over by now with him, but no, he is still a frozen Mutagen Man.

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    • Okay, so tell me this: Why should I like what happened in this episode? It's a fair question. How did this episode improve the show's plot, character development or continuity? Did it give more than it took?

      It's not enough for this show to just be action-packed and have some laughs and fanservice. That's like eating nothing but dessert‚ÄĒit's really bad for you. This series hooked me by having some great character development and writing and continuity. How does this episode further that interest? Does it give more to that interest than it takes away from it?

      Everyone keeps complaining about no resolution for Karai and no resolution for Timothy and no resolution for lots of things. But this, too, is a matter of continuity. Stretching a story arc without really continuing to develop it does not to a service to its continuity, because to continue usually implies actually moving forward rather than recycling the same plot again and again. With only minor differences, The Deadly Venom and The Fourfold Trap were basically the same plot: Brainwashed Karai makes problems for turtles and her plans are foiled just before she slips away. When the writers give artificial longevity to a plot or just let plot threads dangle without resolution, they do not inspire faith in their storytelling abilities.

      So ask yourself this. Everyone should be asking themselves this. Why does this show continue to inspire your faith in its writing when that writing mostly just disappoints you?

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:

      And I still follow other TMNT works, none of which have gotten this bad, but are still covered by this wiki. But the terrible stuff is still everywhere to be seen. What does someone do about that?

      Well, I mean, what can you do. You aren't involved with the show (to my knowledge at least) so you can't do anything to immediade affect the show to make it better. At best you can probably email them your complaints and preferences to try and persuade them to change, (although i doubt that will happen). But that's about it. Ranting about it on a wiki forum isn't likely to get their attention and doesn't really help your cause. So the way I see it, you have 3 options.

      1. Accept the fact that the show has changed and try to find good in this different take. (my recommendation)

      2. Contine to badmouth the new directiion of the show. (which doesn't change the show and avails to nothing)

      3. Stop watching this show entirely. Another good suggestion. This show isn't the only form of TMNT, as you would know.


      Complaining about something you already have given up on is just carrying baggage :|

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    • UltimateTitan6:

      I really feel I need to apologize to you. I was having another fan burnout moment. I felt like my complaints were righteous, and I wasn't actually trying to troll anyone. But I guess I haven't behaved very well. It's been a bad day, that's for sure.

      1. I've actually increasingly moved on to Amazing Adventures, which splits its continuity off from the 2K12 series.
      2. I really meant the things I said. I guess I saw this episode as being only unhealthy to the TMNT fandom as a whole. I think I irrationally wanted to ruin this episode for everyone else so it wouldn't permanently change what kinds of fans they are and make me feel completely left behind when I could not follow. It was selfish, but...I don't like seeing communities fracture like this.
      3. To be honest...I already did stop watching it. And I already follow several other TMNT works. It's just...I really, really loved this show.

      I guess I hadn't really given up. I wanted to convince myself to give up, but in the end, I was as invested a fan as ever. The paradox is, I'll probably continue to be, since Amazing Adventures continues to rely on continuity 2K12 had previously established, so the first two and a half seasons are now reference material for two separate TMNT continuities.

      You know, it's strange, thinking that this event that happened in the 2K12 show...didn't happen at all in Amazing Adventures, and they still shared histories. That comic's Raph is still the Raph I know and love. Even though it happened in only one of the continuities, I guess I considered this shoehorned Raphalisa plot element...obscene, and continuity-disruptive.

      I really would like to be a more pleasant conversation partner in these forums. I like to be positive, contribute new things, not get so much on everyone's nerves. I like being a part of that. But I guess today was never going to be a simple day, and I don't really have the guile to fake my sheer unrefined revulsion.

      I hope I haven't burned bridges with you or too many other users. My hopes and dreams and likes are just as sincere as my fears, nightmares and dislikes. And I can dream up as well as down. I don't want to be so bitter that people avoid me. A little further up, I was actively trying to find some common ground and negotiate a truce. But then I heard yet another user gush and once again it hit a raw nerve of disgust. I didn't contain that well enough, and I'm really very sorry about that.

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    • ChristopherRedfield246: Sorry for being such a buzzkill. I wanted to ruin it for others...mainly because I didn't want to feel like I didn't have anything in common with this show's fans anymore. I was kinda freaking out, being irrational, and it was selfish. I still feel the way I do about this episode‚ÄĒthat's really not going to change. But I went too far. I'm sorry.

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Tarrlok's the REAL Hero wrote: Don't get me started on how they've treated Karai (and Timothy). I have never seen such a prolonged resolve in any story!
      I completely forgot about that poor soul who became the Mutagen Man. Please writers, sometime after this arc, have Donnie find a cure for him. That was such a sad story. :(

      Don't forget all the stuff I said about Karai either. She deserves to have this good stuff happen.

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    • Sugilita: In retrospect, maybe I did overreact. In fact, it's fair to say I freaked out. I still think the episode and plot were bad, but still, I freaked out. I guess this is why you're an administrator and I don't think I should be one. XD I'm usually reasonable in the end, but man, sometimes I can be a determinator. Does that mean I think I need more restraint and handling with kid gloves? No. It just means life is less boring when I'm around. XD

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Okay, so tell me this: Why should I like what happened in this episode? It's a fair question. How did this episode improve the show's plot, character development or continuity? Did it give more than it took?

      It's not enough for this show to just be action-packed and have some laughs and fanservice. That's like eating nothing but dessert‚ÄĒit's really bad for you. This series hooked me by having some great character development and writing and continuity. How does this episode further that interest? Does it give more to that interest than it takes away from it?

      Everyone keeps complaining about no resolution for Karai and no resolution for Timothy and no resolution for lots of things. But this, too, is a matter of continuity. Stretching a story arc without really continuing to develop it does not to a service to its continuity, because to continue usually implies actually moving forward rather than recycling the same plot again and again. With only minor differences, The Deadly Venom and The Fourfold Trap were basically the same plot: Brainwashed Karai makes problems for turtles and her plans are foiled just before she slips away. When the writers give artificial longevity to a plot or just let plot threads dangle without resolution, they do not inspire faith in their storytelling abilities.

      So ask yourself this. Everyone should be asking themselves this. Why does this show continue to inspire your faith in its writing when that writing mostly just disappoints you?

      Dude, we're two episodes into this arc. There ain't much to develop yet. XD But still, this episode demonstrated how Raph has matured over the past seasons to the point where he was the voice of reason who tried to make piece with the enemy despite their defience and uncooperation with them. When his brothers were indifferent, Raph of all turtles did not lose hope and eventually succeeded in bringing the Salamandrians on their side. That's decent character development if you ask me. Plus, the fact that Raph has a major love interest in general is character development. We saw emotional aspects and actions of Raph that we aren't used to seeing when the situation is concerning Mona Lisa. The two had their first REAL KISS, and the two grew emotionally attached to each other. In addition to all of this, Leo told Raph he will see her again, implying she will make a reappearance. THAT is character deveopment if i've ever seen it in this series.


      FINAL POINT: No one is asking you to like what direction the show is going in. Repeatedly saying things like a show has become trash just because it's writing changed isn't really constructive criticism and just comes off as someone steaming because they can't open their mind.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      UltimateTitan6:

      I really feel I need to apologize to you. I was having another fan burnout moment. I felt like my complaints were righteous, and I wasn't actually trying to troll anyone.

      It's cool man. I'm just trying to say that there are healthier ways to express your opinion. :]

      Sorry if I hurt your feelings by saying you were a troll.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      No, you mentioned Bizarro plot elements in...I guess it was a different thread. XD

      Yup, mixing up topics, you need to chillax big time daddio. My advice still stands, take a break from Turtle stuff! 

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:
      Gilgameshkun wrote:
      No, you mentioned Bizarro plot elements in...I guess it was a different thread. XD
      Yup, mixing up topics, you need to chillax big time daddio. My advice still stands, take a break from Turtle stuff! 

      I second this ūüėé

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:

      Gilgameshkun wrote:
      No, you mentioned Bizarro plot elements in...I guess it was a different thread. XD

      Yup, mixing up topics, you need to chillax big time daddio. My advice still stands, take a break from Turtle stuff! 

      I'm too actively involved in other TMNT stuff that doesn't give me nearly this much frustration, so I'll still be around the wiki. But it's true perhaps I could use a good break from all 2K12 stuff from after about the middle of the third season. The previous 2K12 stuff will remain relevant to the Amazing Adventures continuity. My problem is that I still care about 2K12 stuff even long after it started disappointing me. It's a problem I need to work on.

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    • THANK you Gil, if there's one lesson Steven Universe teaches us is that gender and sexuality are not black and white.

      I don't remember who said that, and it doesn't seem to be in the thread anymore outside of other people's quotes. But yes, I appreciate very much that gender and sexuality aren't black and white. I also realize this could mean a character like Raph may have a murky bisexual side.

      I mean, I knew of a gay man whose interest in men was 99% and interest in women was 1%, and ended finding a woman in that 1% and marrying her. Perhaps it helped that his wife was said to have an exotic gender identity of her own, but I don't know the details.

      Still, even if Raph and Mona Lisa had had genuine chemistry, Tarrlok is absolutely right: Don't try to go from 0 to 60 in one episode. You never find your true love in speed dating. I mean, even if someone you meet in speed dating becomes your true love, it's virtually guaranteed they're not your true love yet after just half an hour. The show pushed this too far, too fast, and it was appalling to some of us who have been in love enough to know how much of a disaster fast romance can be.

      The funny thing is, there have been more fast romance plots in Image and Mirage comics, but they realistically addressed the consequences. Usually, it was Mikey who got into a fast romance, jumped into bed with someone, felt some strong emotional passions for them, and then felt let down when he was hit with the reality that they weren't going to live happily ever after with him after such a brief tryst. And he usually lost something in the process, whether it was his virginity, or part of his innocence, and he even fathered children he may never see again.

      When you're an adult and not a complete dumbass, you usually know about this already. So, what is written to magically work out without consequences in a show for kids, would be absurd to write the same way in something adults read. Considering it was mostly adult fans (often my own age, but mostly just fans of the 1987 series) who demanded Mona Lisa be brought onto this series, it's only an awkward reminder that most adult 1987 series fans today are complete and utter manchildren who seem incapable of growing up. I can't confidently say I've totally matured in every way appropriate to my age (considering how manic I can be), but I know I've matured enough for my priorities to have shifted such that I find all fast romance plots painfully facile unless they have realistic consequences.

      Also, I'm still annoyed the show spent so much energy in building up Raph and Slash all the up to the season 2 finale only for the writers completely drop the ball on their further development. This made Battle for New York, Clash of the Mutanimals, Dinosaur Seen in Sewers and Annihilation Earth all rather frustrating for me to watch, because I wished for them to readdress that arc, and they only gave them the briefest acknowledgment at best. My circle of fan friends also found them disappointing, but most had completely stopped watching the series altogether by the time I was still watching Annihilation Earth all by myself. All of us were thoroughly convinced Raph and Slash were a natural pair, not just me.

      The more I thought about it recently, the more I realized that they still may have actually been a natural pair back then. It's just the show itself has been retooled, and they went a different direction and tweaked personalities to try to make something new work. One of my friends later admitted that, even though he was as convinced as everyone else, he didn't think Nick would ever eventually allow any of the central main characters to come out of the closet‚ÄĒnot on the 2K12 series, not in the more mature IDW comics, or anywhere in licensed works‚ÄĒat least for now. Lindsey is a main character in IDW's Mutanimals series and she's a lesbian, but she's exclusive to the IDW comics anyway. It now seems like the Legend of Korra's revelation was an embarrassment that caught Nick uncomfortably by surprise, and they're likely afraid of any possible bad press, loss of toys sales, or any reputation from other licensed works rubbing off on their TMNT cartoon. So, while Raph and Slash may have been genuinely originally intended to be love interests, their further development may have been vetoed by Nick, perhaps relatively late into their development, which is why their plot was so unceremoniously left dangling the way it was. I know that Kevin Eastman has said in interview that Nick frequently vetoes ideas he has for the IDW comic, so I know Nick does clash at times with their writers. My friend could still be wrong‚ÄĒmaybe they would allow one of the main characters to be gay under certain circumstances‚ÄĒbut right now Lindsey's the only openly gay main character in a licensed TMNT work.

      So, this is a lot more complex than "Raph is gay" or "Raph is bi" or "Raph is not gay at all," because it relies on the assumption that Raph is a real person. Raph is what Nick wants Raph to be with only several months prior notice, which makes every aspect of his character development subject to change. He was written to be in love with Mona Lisa because that was decided in advance at least several months ago. It does not necessarily reflect on Raph's permanent character development, because as has become apparent, the characters have no permanent character development since Nick can and does change whatever they want for whatever reasons they want. And while I appreciate the possibility that this episode did maybe give more to the plot and character development than it took back, it's still difficult for viewers with long memories who feel that it violates the continuity of character development as they understood it. Of course, if that development happened two or more years previous, a statistical majority of the audience has reliably forgotten about it (I'm not kidding), and the entertainment industry actually relies on this rule to know when they can safely retool characters, recycle scripts, etc. while receiving only minimal complaints for it.

      UltimateTitan6: How was that? I tried to write all of it with a cool, logical mind. :) I also tried to balance viewpoints and address other people's input. No gagging, no "trash." How successful was I?

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    • You could write a college thesis with how long your damn posts can be.¬†

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    • That's me, Mr. Walls Of Text. XD Sometimes it's a real gift when I'm trying to write something substantive or code a complicated JavaScript project. The drawback is that I often genuinely don't know how to be brief. I use many times as many words as it takes to make a relatively simple point. If it were between me and Sugilita, you can depend on Sugilita every time to say all the right things in the fewest words.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      That's me, Mr. Walls Of Text. XD Sometimes it's a real gift when I'm trying to write something substantive or code a complicated JavaScript project. The drawback is that I often genuinely don't know how to be brief. I use many times as many words as it takes to make a relatively simple point. If it were between me and Sugilita, you can depend on Sugilita every time to say all the right things in the fewest words.

      Yes I can see that, just...please work on it a little, for essay writing its good but fo conversational writing its best to be brief.

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    • Yeah, not going to happen... There are complicated reasons why I'm usually incapable of brevity, which I will not share here now. But my speech patterns IRL are even more complicated. I'm a motor mouth, a periodic stutterer, an occasional spoonerizer, and I randomly pause mid-sentence as my mind races ahead of itself. I talk like I'm on caffeine, but I've never had a cup of coffee in my life.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:

      THANK you Gil, if there's one lesson Steven Universe teaches us is that gender and sexuality are not black and white.

      I don't remember who said that, and it doesn't seem to be in the thread anymore outside of other people's quotes. But yes, I appreciate very much that gender and sexuality aren't black and white. I also realize this could mean a character like Raph may have a murky bisexual side.

      I mean, I knew of a gay man whose interest in men was 99% and interest in women was 1%, and ended finding a woman in that 1% and marrying her. Perhaps it helped that his wife was said to have an exotic gender identity of her own, but I don't know the details.

      Still, even if Raph and Mona Lisa had had genuine chemistry, Tarrlok is absolutely right: Don't try to go from 0 to 60 in one episode. You never find your true love in speed dating. I mean, even if someone you meet in speed dating becomes your true love, it's virtually guaranteed they're not your true love yet after just half an hour. The show pushed this too far, too fast, and it was appalling to some of us who have been in love enough to know how much of a disaster fast romance can be.

      The funny thing is, there have been more fast romance plots in Image and Mirage comics, but they realistically addressed the consequences. Usually, it was Mikey who got into a fast romance, jumped into bed with someone, felt some strong emotional passions for them, and then felt let down when he was hit with the reality that they weren't going to live happily ever after with him after such a brief tryst. And he usually lost something in the process, whether it was his virginity, or part of his innocence, and he even fathered children he may never see again.

      When you're an adult and not a complete dumbass, you usually know about this already. So, what is written to magically work out without consequences in a show for kids, would be absurd to write the same way in something adults read. Considering it was mostly adult fans (often my own age, but mostly just fans of the 1987 series) who demanded Mona Lisa be brought onto this series, it's only an awkward reminder that most adult 1987 series fans today are complete and utter manchildren who seem incapable of growing up. I can't confidently say I've totally matured in every way appropriate to my age (considering how manic I can be), but I know I've matured enough for my priorities to have shifted such that I find all fast romance plots painfully facile unless they have realistic consequences.

      Also, I'm still annoyed the show spent so much energy in building up Raph and Slash all the up to the season 2 finale only for the writers completely drop the ball on their further development. This made Battle for New York, Clash of the Mutanimals, Dinosaur Seen in Sewers and Annihilation Earth all rather frustrating for me to watch, because I wished for them to readdress that arc, and they only gave them the briefest acknowledgment at best. My circle of fan friends also found them disappointing, but most had completely stopped watching the series altogether by the time I was still watching Annihilation Earth all by myself. All of us were thoroughly convinced Raph and Slash were a natural pair, not just me.

      The more I thought about it recently, the more I realized that they still may have actually been a natural pair back then. It's just the show itself has been retooled, and they went a different direction and tweaked personalities to try to make something new work. One of my friends later admitted that, even though he was as convinced as everyone else, he didn't think Nick would ever eventually allow any of the central main characters to come out of the closet‚ÄĒnot on the 2K12 series, not in the more mature IDW comics, or anywhere in licensed works‚ÄĒat least for now. Lindsey is a main character in IDW's Mutanimals series and she's a lesbian, but she's exclusive to the IDW comics anyway. It now seems like the Legend of Korra's revelation was an embarrassment that caught Nick uncomfortably by surprise, and they're likely afraid of any possible bad press, loss of toys sales, or any reputation from other licensed works rubbing off on their TMNT cartoon. So, while Raph and Slash may have been genuinely originally intended to be love interests, their further development may have been vetoed by Nick, perhaps relatively late into their development, which is why their plot was so unceremoniously left dangling the way it was. I know that Kevin Eastman has said in interview that Nick frequently vetoes ideas he has for the IDW comic, so I know Nick does clash at times with their writers. My friend could still be wrong‚ÄĒmaybe they would allow one of the main characters to be gay under certain circumstances‚ÄĒbut right now Lindsey's the only openly gay main character in a licensed TMNT work.

      So, this is a lot more complex than "Raph is gay" or "Raph is bi" or "Raph is not gay at all," because it relies on the assumption that Raph is a real person. Raph is what Nick wants Raph to be with only several months prior notice, which makes every aspect of his character development subject to change. He was written to be in love with Mona Lisa because that was decided in advance at least several months ago. It does not necessarily reflect on Raph's permanent character development, because as has become apparent, the characters have no permanent character development since Nick can and does change whatever they want for whatever reasons they want. And while I appreciate the possibility that this episode did maybe give more to the plot and character development than it took back, it's still difficult for viewers with long memories who feel that it violates the continuity of character development as they understood it. Of course, if that development happened two or more years previous, a statistical majority of the audience has reliably forgotten about it (I'm not kidding), and the entertainment industry actually relies on this rule to know when they can safely retool characters, recycle scripts, etc. while receiving only minimal complaints for it.

      UltimateTitan6: How was that? I tried to write all of it with a cool, logical mind. :) I also tried to balance viewpoints and address other people's input. No gagging, no "trash." How successful was I?

      Hmm interesting interesting ūü§Ēūü§Ē Expressing points thoroughly, no blind insults, no baggage, clearly and peacefully speaking your mind. Yup!ūüĎć You're clean. Congratulations G-kun. You are officially a conversationalist. We need more of this Gilgameshkunūüėá

        Loading editor
    • ONE paragraph? One paragraph is all I'm asking!

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    • If I wrote everything I intended to say in one paragraph, it would become hard to read. I break up my thoughts into paragraphs as I write them to make them more readable. Also, after you brought up how long my posts are, I was curious, and I did an online typing test to gauge my typing speed (which I don't think I'd ever done before):

      I did a typing speed test and scored 618 CPM = 124 WPM (with 1 mistake) at http://typing-speed-test.aoeu.eu.

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    • I guess I have motor fingers in addition to a motor mouth...

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote: Hmm interesting interesting ūü§Ēūü§Ē Expressing points thoroughly, no blind insults, no baggage, clearly and peacefully speaking your mind. Yup!ūüĎć You're clean. Congratulations G-kun. You are officially a conversationalist. We need more of this Gilgameshkunūüėá

      Good, because I haven't actually changed my mind. XD I just thought you all deserved a calmer thorough analysis from me to make up for my little rampage. I'm still barely a hair's breadth away from baggage and insults‚ÄĒbut I try only to insult the works of fiction, Nick as an entity, etc., and not other users.

      It's a weird paradox: I'll try to be civil to people even as I want to destroy the things they may happen to like. This was a huge undercurrent of the Star Fox fandom's Krystal debates; either she was the best thing that ever happened to the Star Fox series and fans would quit the fandom if she were removed from the franchise, or she existed only to be permanently blotted from time and space with fans never loving the series again until she was gone forever. The phenomenon can be best summed up as so:

      Fan dumb

      And all of us are at least a little guilty of it at one time or another.

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      I don't know about you guys but I'm all aboard the RaphxMona ship!!! Woot Wooooot!!!
      I am also aboard that ship, my friend. And this episode was a great start for it. :]
      Totally, I especially love how it wasn't instant love, it took some getting to know each other, or more specifically, it took Mona kicking Raph's butt!!! XD
      Shell yeah! She kicked their all shells in this one. Tbh I think Donnie got the worst of it, especially when Mona cracked his shelly walnuts (wink wink)

      And yeah my thoughts exactly. I was afraid that this was going to be like the Mikey/Renet syndrome. But this episode literally turned out perfect. Mona and Raph really grew on each other and developed throughout this episode while also not making us wait for them to get together. And I got chills for that last scene when the were both about to die. The fact that they kissed made me happy, and i keep saying this, but the others' reaction was TOO PRICELESS. I can't wait to see more of her and where these two lovebirds will go from here.

      Amen my friend!

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    • Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      I don't know about you guys but I'm all aboard the RaphxMona ship!!! Woot Wooooot!!!
      I am also aboard that ship, my friend. And this episode was a great start for it. :]
      Totally, I especially love how it wasn't instant love, it took some getting to know each other, or more specifically, it took Mona kicking Raph's butt!!! XD
      Shell yeah! She kicked their all shells in this one. Tbh I think Donnie got the worst of it, especially when Mona cracked his shelly walnuts (wink wink)

      And yeah my thoughts exactly. I was afraid that this was going to be like the Mikey/Renet syndrome. But this episode literally turned out perfect. Mona and Raph really grew on each other and developed throughout this episode while also not making us wait for them to get together. And I got chills for that last scene when the were both about to die. The fact that they kissed made me happy, and i keep saying this, but the others' reaction was TOO PRICELESS. I can't wait to see more of her and where these two lovebirds will go from here.

      Amen my friend!

      What?Mona kicked Don in the nuts?This must hurt. :'D

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    • Yeah. During the handshake fight, and after¬†Mona knocked Raph down, Donnie tried to help him and took the hardest knee to the nuts I have ever seen in my life. I shed a tear for Donnie when that happened¬†XD. I'll probably make a GIF out of it if no one beats me to it.

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Yeah. During the handshake fight, and after she knocked Raph down, Donnie tried to help him and took the hardest knee to the nuts I have ever seen in my life XD. I shed a tear for Donnie when that happened. XD I'll probably make a GIF out of it if no one beats me to it

      File:Tumblr nx5ol7W5O61uclwkdo7 250.gif
      You mean this?XDD
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    • Yup! You beat me to it! XD. You should have included the part where the camera zoomed in on their faces and showed the details of their expressions.

      Edit: Woops just found it! Thanks! I just noticed you uploaded a lot of the ones I was going to. You saved me a lot of time XD :]

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    • Biganimefan
      Biganimefan removed this reply because:
      repeat post
      20:42, November 2, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:

      Gilgameshkun wrote:

      THANK you Gil, if there's one lesson Steven Universe teaches us is that gender and sexuality are not black and white.
      I don't remember who said that, and it doesn't seem to be in the thread anymore outside of other people's quotes. But yes, I appreciate very much that gender and sexuality aren't black and white. I also realize this could mean a character like Raph may have a murky bisexual side.

      I mean, I knew of a gay man whose interest in men was 99% and interest in women was 1%, and ended finding a woman in that 1% and marrying her. Perhaps it helped that his wife was said to have an exotic gender identity of her own, but I don't know the details.

      Still, even if Raph and Mona Lisa had had genuine chemistry, Tarrlok is absolutely right: Don't try to go from 0 to 60 in one episode. You never find your true love in speed dating. I mean, even if someone you meet in speed dating becomes your true love, it's virtually guaranteed they're not your true love yet after just half an hour. The show pushed this too far, too fast, and it was appalling to some of us who have been in love enough to know how much of a disaster fast romance can be.

      The funny thing is, there have been more fast romance plots in Image and Mirage comics, but they realistically addressed the consequences. Usually, it was Mikey who got into a fast romance, jumped into bed with someone, felt some strong emotional passions for them, and then felt let down when he was hit with the reality that they weren't going to live happily ever after with him after such a brief tryst. And he usually lost something in the process, whether it was his virginity, or part of his innocence, and he even fathered children he may never see again.

      When you're an adult and not a complete dumbass, you usually know about this already. So, what is written to magically work out without consequences in a show for kids, would be absurd to write the same way in something adults read. Considering it was mostly adult fans (often my own age, but mostly just fans of the 1987 series) who demanded Mona Lisa be brought onto this series, it's only an awkward reminder that most adult 1987 series fans today are complete and utter manchildren who seem incapable of growing up. I can't confidently say I've totally matured in every way appropriate to my age (considering how manic I can be), but I know I've matured enough for my priorities to have shifted such that I find all fast romance plots painfully facile unless they have realistic consequences.

      Also, I'm still annoyed the show spent so much energy in building up Raph and Slash all the up to the season 2 finale only for the writers completely drop the ball on their further development. This made Battle for New York, Clash of the Mutanimals, Dinosaur Seen in Sewers and Annihilation Earth all rather frustrating for me to watch, because I wished for them to readdress that arc, and they only gave them the briefest acknowledgment at best. My circle of fan friends also found them disappointing, but most had completely stopped watching the series altogether by the time I was still watching Annihilation Earth all by myself. All of us were thoroughly convinced Raph and Slash were a natural pair, not just me.

      The more I thought about it recently, the more I realized that they still may have actually been a natural pair back then. It's just the show itself has been retooled, and they went a different direction and tweaked personalities to try to make something new work. One of my friends later admitted that, even though he was as convinced as everyone else, he didn't think Nick would ever eventually allow any of the central main characters to come out of the closet‚ÄĒnot on the 2K12 series, not in the more mature IDW comics, or anywhere in licensed works‚ÄĒat least for now. Lindsey is a main character in IDW's Mutanimals series and she's a lesbian, but she's exclusive to the IDW comics anyway. It now seems like the Legend of Korra's revelation was an embarrassment that caught Nick uncomfortably by surprise, and they're likely afraid of any possible bad press, loss of toys sales, or any reputation from other licensed works rubbing off on their TMNT cartoon. So, while Raph and Slash may have been genuinely originally intended to be love interests, their further development may have been vetoed by Nick, perhaps relatively late into their development, which is why their plot was so unceremoniously left dangling the way it was. I know that Kevin Eastman has said in interview that Nick frequently vetoes ideas he has for the IDW comic, so I know Nick does clash at times with their writers. My friend could still be wrong‚ÄĒmaybe they would allow one of the main characters to be gay under certain circumstances‚ÄĒbut right now Lindsey's the only openly gay main character in a licensed TMNT work.

      So, this is a lot more complex than "Raph is gay" or "Raph is bi" or "Raph is not gay at all," because it relies on the assumption that Raph is a real person. Raph is what Nick wants Raph to be with only several months prior notice, which makes every aspect of his character development subject to change. He was written to be in love with Mona Lisa because that was decided in advance at least several months ago. It does not necessarily reflect on Raph's permanent character development, because as has become apparent, the characters have no permanent character development since Nick can and does change whatever they want for whatever reasons they want. And while I appreciate the possibility that this episode did maybe give more to the plot and character development than it took back, it's still difficult for viewers with long memories who feel that it violates the continuity of character development as they understood it. Of course, if that development happened two or more years previous, a statistical majority of the audience has reliably forgotten about it (I'm not kidding), and the entertainment industry actually relies on this rule to know when they can safely retool characters, recycle scripts, etc. while receiving only minimal complaints for it.

      UltimateTitan6: How was that? I tried to write all of it with a cool, logical mind. :) I also tried to balance viewpoints and address other people's input. No gagging, no "trash." How successful was I?

      Hmm interesting interesting ūü§Ēūü§Ē Expressing points thoroughly, no blind insults, no baggage, clearly and peacefully speaking your mind. Yup!ūüĎć You're clean. Congratulations G-kun. You are officially a conversationalist. We need more of this Gilgameshkunūüėá

      Not sure what you guys' definition of insulting is. But I think calling people "manchildren" and "incapable of growing up" qualifies. 

      EVERYONE on this planet is different from everyone else! Sure, a lot of us may like similar or even the same things, but don't make assumptions on someone just because you "don't get it!"

      Me personally, I have a wide range of interests as far as taste in media is concerned. But that's a topic for another time. I've been a fan of the franchise since 1989 when I was 5 years old. Yes, the 1987 series has NOT aged well! There's no ifs/ands or buts about it. But I can still find things to love about it despite nostalgia and all the issues it has. I think it's safe to say that in some ways I've enjoyed every major incarnation of the franchise, including the new movie and Next Mutation. 

      I introduced the franchise to my wife after we got married almost a year and a half ago. She does not really care for either the original series or the 2K3 series but really enjoyes the 2K12 show. Granted, she's seen up until the first 4 episodes of season 3 and she doesn't like the Northampton arc much(neither did I) but I think she'll like it better once she's at Vision Quest. Although I do admit that I have not seen the 2nd half of season 3 yet, I really doubt my enjoyment of the show will sour all that much from what I've heard. 

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    • Biganimefan wrote:
       

      Not sure what you guys' definition of insulting is. But I think calling people "manchildren" and "incapable of growing up" qualifies. 

      EVERYONE on this planet is different from everyone else! Sure, a lot of us may like similar or even the same things, but don't make assumptions on someone just because you "don't get it!"

      THIS I have to agree with. I didn't catch that at first, but yeah, that's very insulting to other fans G-kun. I'd even go as far as saying that's derogatory. You can't just judge other people because they like something that you hate. That's foolish! That's basically like saying to the majority of fans "You all are stupid because you don't think like me", which is a very 2-dimensional and ignorant way of thinking. That is NOT healthy fandom language, or even social language in general so I recommend you take that term out of your vocabulary.

      tbh I didn't read all of it but sort of got the gist of most of it

      PLEASE SHORTEN YOUR POSTS MAN!

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
       

      tbh I didn't read all of it but sort of got the gist of most of it

      that's ok, I didn't really either. I just catch his phrase "manchildren" come up a lot in quite a few of his posts and kinda took issue with it. I've been following thetechnodrome forums for years and I don't think I've ever run into something quite that insulting. The fandom there is quite a diverse group too.

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:


      PLEASE SHORTEN YOUR POSTS MAN!

      SEE, not just me!

      On the topic of people complaining about 1987 similarities, this show was ALWAYS inspired by the 87 show. The Kraang, Hamato Yoshi being Splinter, the way mutagen works, Mutagen man, and a bunch of other little jokes here and there. But what I find weird, this season feels MORE like the Mirage comics than the 87 show to me, albeit having the camp of 87.

      And on the topic of the old show, the majority of it is just a silly cartoon, but there could be some cool action scenes as well as characters here and there. If only Alpha One could've stayed, HE WAS SO COOL!

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Yup! You beat me to it! XD. You should have included the part where the camera zoomed in on their faces and showed the details of their expressions.

      Edit: Woops just found it! Thanks! I just noticed you uploaded a lot of the ones I was going to. You saved me a lot of time XD :]

      No problem,i was fast uploading them.

      Side Note: I see that you like Teen Titans,and that you ship BBRae.

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    • Sugilita wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      I don't know about you guys but I'm all aboard the RaphxMona ship!!! Woot Wooooot!!!
      I am also aboard that ship, my friend. And this episode was a great start for it. :]
      Totally, I especially love how it wasn't instant love, it took some getting to know each other, or more specifically, it took Mona kicking Raph's butt!!! XD
      Shell yeah! She kicked their all shells in this one. Tbh I think Donnie got the worst of it, especially when Mona cracked his shelly walnuts (wink wink)

      And yeah my thoughts exactly. I was afraid that this was going to be like the Mikey/Renet syndrome. But this episode literally turned out perfect. Mona and Raph really grew on each other and developed throughout this episode while also not making us wait for them to get together. And I got chills for that last scene when the were both about to die. The fact that they kissed made me happy, and i keep saying this, but the others' reaction was TOO PRICELESS. I can't wait to see more of her and where these two lovebirds will go from here.

      Amen my friend!
      What?Mona kicked Don in the nuts?This must hurt. :'D

      K I'm female and I cringed when I saw that part lol!

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:

      On the topic of people complaining about 1987 similarities, this show was ALWAYS inspired by the 87 show. The Kraang, Hamato Yoshi being Splinter, the way mutagen works, Mutagen man, and a bunch of other little jokes here and there. But what I find weird, this season feels MORE like the Mirage comics than the 87 show to me, albeit having the camp of 87.

      And on the topic of the old show, the majority of it is just a silly cartoon, but there could be some cool action scenes as well as characters here and there. If only Alpha One could've stayed, HE WAS SO COOL!

      Shell, even the theme song XD

      And yeah, I do get a Mirage vibe from how this season is so far. I also feel a few tiny elements of 2K3. Did anyone notice that Mozar already knew who the Fugitoid was and ordered an immediate attack on him. THAT needs explaining but if it follows 2K3's events...meh, not really.

      Btw I want you guys to now I called a couple of things that happened in this episode in my first tread on this forum. Like the Salamandrians and the Triceratons are actually war enemies and Mona Lisa would suggest the turtles are may be working with them. Which is pretty interesting because it seems like the Salamandrians serve as the good versions of the Federation from 2K3. The fact that this series made a race of giant newts to be one of the Triceratons' is pretty cool and interesting. Isn't seeing two animal-like alien races fight each other much cooler that seeing just one and ahuman-like race fighting?

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    • Sugilita wrote:
      Side Note: I see that you like Teen Titans,and that you ship BBRae.

      These are facts :]

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    • *sigh*

      When I said manchildren, I didn't mean people who happened to like the 1987 TV series when they were little but have since grown out of it. I'm talking about the ones who are adults and still prefer its entire formula, format, tone, legacy, etc. I don't mind if new versions adapt specific elements from it. Even the IDW comics have taken the Neutrinos and actually turned them into a really, really good thing. But there are elements of the 1987 TV series that...really should have died with that series, including the ways it drastically simplified plot, character development and continuity. The 2012 TV series started out being different enough to really appreciate even at my age. But the more it becomes like the 1987 TV series over time, the more it actually suffers for it. I don't want more crossovers with the 1987 characters. I don't want characters to be increasingly written as plot expies of their 1987 counterparts who are awkwardly shoehorned into the same storylines. I don't want every 1987 character under the sun being adapted to the 2012 series if most of them are not going to be written with any more complexity or maturity than the previous versions. It's mindnumbing, and makes the show worse over time. So when I say the adult fans who still prefer the 1987 series legacy are manchildren, it's only because I want a series that gradually matures and ages with grace over time (like Mirage TMNT‚ÄĒor to name another Nick example‚ÄĒAvatar: The Last Airbender and The Legend of Korra), and not one that tries to appeal mainly to people who act like they're 7 years old forever (which I never said necessarily includes the other adult users commenting here). Characters grow up. Characters have serious life developments that last longer than one episode or even just a few months. Characters are still affected by serious things that happened to them two or more years prior. You should know well I'm far from the first person who has complained about these things.

      I mean, good grief, these turtles turned 15 in the first episode, and they should be 18 by now, not an increasingly artificial version of 15 forever. Don't try to make them more believable teenagers only to keep them stunted at that level of maturity forever even as years go by in-story.

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Sugilita wrote:
      Side Note: I see that you like Teen Titans,and that you ship BBRae.
      These are facts :]

      I like Teen Titans BUT you might don't like the copule who i like. XD

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    • Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      Sugilita wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      I don't know about you guys but I'm all aboard the RaphxMona ship!!! Woot Wooooot!!!
      I am also aboard that ship, my friend. And this episode was a great start for it. :]
      Totally, I especially love how it wasn't instant love, it took some getting to know each other, or more specifically, it took Mona kicking Raph's butt!!! XD
      Shell yeah! She kicked their all shells in this one. Tbh I think Donnie got the worst of it, especially when Mona cracked his shelly walnuts (wink wink)

      And yeah my thoughts exactly. I was afraid that this was going to be like the Mikey/Renet syndrome. But this episode literally turned out perfect. Mona and Raph really grew on each other and developed throughout this episode while also not making us wait for them to get together. And I got chills for that last scene when the were both about to die. The fact that they kissed made me happy, and i keep saying this, but the others' reaction was TOO PRICELESS. I can't wait to see more of her and where these two lovebirds will go from here.

      Amen my friend!
      What?Mona kicked Don in the nuts?This must hurt. :'D
      K I'm female and I cringed when I saw that part lol!
      I shed a tear for Donnie when I saw this...
      File:Tumblr nx5ol7W5O61uclwkdo7 250.gif
      File:Tumblr nx5ol7W5O61uclwkdo8 250.gif

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    • Sugilita wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Sugilita wrote:
      Side Note: I see that you like Teen Titans,and that you ship BBRae.
      These are facts :]
      I like Teen Titans BUT you might don't like the copule who i like. XD

      Lol I know you ship BBTerra. Funny, I found this out earlier today when I randomly decided to look at the "Mikey and Beast Boy" forum from like 3 years ago when the show just started and saw you state it XD. I never really liked Terra tbh. Her personality really turns me off. Beast Boy and Raven seem to have better chemistry together imo. Plus, Terra's a VILLAIN. But hey, different ideas are what make this world unique and interesting and that's just the way I like it :]

        Loading editor
    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Sugilita wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Sugilita wrote:
      Side Note: I see that you like Teen Titans,and that you ship BBRae.
      These are facts :]
      I like Teen Titans BUT you might don't like the copule who i like. XD
      Lol I know you ship BBTerra. Funny, I found this out earlier today when I randomly decided to look at the "Mikey and Beast Boy" forum from like 3 years ago when the show just started and saw you state it XD. I never really liked Terra tbh. Her personality really turns me off. Beast Boy and Raven seem to have better chemistry together imo. Plus, Terra's a VILLAIN. But hey, different ideas are what make this world unique and interesting and that's just the way I like it :]

      I only like this couple in the original cartoon show. :) [1]

      I kinda don't like the new cartoon. :/

        Loading editor
    • Let's not talk about the new show, there's been enough arguing on this topic AS is.

        Loading editor
    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      It's actually stranger to treat a fully-grown humanoid bipedal person like a pet. I can think of two situations where someone treats another sentient person like a pet‚ÄĒwhen they ultimately don't respect that person as an equal, or when they're being kinky. Mikey does neither with Leatherhead.

      Raph cherished Slash most because his most cherished possession was a photo of him.

      My friends and I pegged Mikey as bisexual, and Raph as gay, especially considering Raph's indifference to women.

      And "homosexual" is not considered a very respectful word anymore, and is often quite offensive. It's too clinical and distancing at best, and has been made more derogatory because mainstream society largely no longer uses it while anti-gay people continue to do so. Please use the words "gay" (specifically) or "LGBT" (broadly), and not "homosexual."

      And please maintain a respectful tone. And I can hear your condescending tone half a world away.

      hey i wasn't trying to offend or start anything, but i was simply saying, you're way too obnoxious about your opinion and like the whole Donnie and April thing, just give it a rest... if you got some sort of condescending tone, that's just you... It was not at all my intention. Just saying, maybe you can focus the dialogue on other aspects of the show, and hey, start your own comment thread about your opinions on the characters romantic interests.... have a good day.

        Loading editor
    • @Sugilita I like both shows. But feel the same way about BB/Rae/Ter for both.¬†:]

      @Yoshimickster Lol Trust me dude, I am the reincarnated spirit of not arguing. The force of genuine positivity. The king of all ghosts. Yoshimickster...I...am your father.

      Ok let me stop with the bad jokes.

      But yeah I kind of meant that to an extent. If see a bitter argument brewing, I will do one of three things.

      1. Try to calm everyone down and have a nice conversation.

      2. Try to find common ground with the other person on SOMETHING we both like.

      3. Step away from the tablet and let it be.

      I do not argue. I DON'T! XD

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      Sugilita wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      I don't know about you guys but I'm all aboard the RaphxMona ship!!! Woot Wooooot!!!
      I am also aboard that ship, my friend. And this episode was a great start for it. :]
      Totally, I especially love how it wasn't instant love, it took some getting to know each other, or more specifically, it took Mona kicking Raph's butt!!! XD
      Shell yeah! She kicked their all shells in this one. Tbh I think Donnie got the worst of it, especially when Mona cracked his shelly walnuts (wink wink)

      And yeah my thoughts exactly. I was afraid that this was going to be like the Mikey/Renet syndrome. But this episode literally turned out perfect. Mona and Raph really grew on each other and developed throughout this episode while also not making us wait for them to get together. And I got chills for that last scene when the were both about to die. The fact that they kissed made me happy, and i keep saying this, but the others' reaction was TOO PRICELESS. I can't wait to see more of her and where these two lovebirds will go from here.

      Amen my friend!
      What?Mona kicked Don in the nuts?This must hurt. :'D
      K I'm female and I cringed when I saw that part lol!
      I shed a tear for Donnie when I saw this...
      File:Tumblr nx5ol7W5O61uclwkdo7 250.gif
      File:Tumblr nx5ol7W5O61uclwkdo8 250.gif

      I'm cringing and laughing because Raph is using this moment to compliment Mona like "you kneed my bro in the balls dang that's kinda hot!"

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    • I love the designs of SalCommander and Mona Lisa... trully loved the way they moved in combat... I'm upset they didn't stick around... but I guess, they are going to be allies vs the Triceratons eventually.

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    • Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      Sugilita wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      I don't know about you guys but I'm all aboard the RaphxMona ship!!! Woot Wooooot!!!
      I am also aboard that ship, my friend. And this episode was a great start for it. :]
      Totally, I especially love how it wasn't instant love, it took some getting to know each other, or more specifically, it took Mona kicking Raph's butt!!! XD
      Shell yeah! She kicked their all shells in this one. Tbh I think Donnie got the worst of it, especially when Mona cracked his shelly walnuts (wink wink)

      And yeah my thoughts exactly. I was afraid that this was going to be like the Mikey/Renet syndrome. But this episode literally turned out perfect. Mona and Raph really grew on each other and developed throughout this episode while also not making us wait for them to get together. And I got chills for that last scene when the were both about to die. The fact that they kissed made me happy, and i keep saying this, but the others' reaction was TOO PRICELESS. I can't wait to see more of her and where these two lovebirds will go from here.

      Amen my friend!
      What?Mona kicked Don in the nuts?This must hurt. :'D
      K I'm female and I cringed when I saw that part lol!
      I shed a tear for Donnie when I saw this...
      File:Tumblr nx5ol7W5O61uclwkdo7 250.gif
      File:Tumblr nx5ol7W5O61uclwkdo8 250.gif

      I'm cringing and laughing because Raph is using this moment to compliment Mona like "you kneed my bro in the balls dang that's kinda hot!"

      LOL I KNOW! That's the crazy thing about it. It's like something straight out of Family Guy. I guess seeing a girl who really knows how to hit a guy below the belt is what really turns Raph on XD. It's moment like these why I really love this show. This episode is definitely going in my top favorites list XD.

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    • ShellBrain wrote:
      I love the designs of SalCommander and Mona Lisa... trully loved the way they moved in combat... I'm upset they didn't stick around... but I guess, they are going to be allies vs the Triceratons eventually.


      With that said, the Turtles may gain other allies, possibly. The question is, who will they be?

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    • ShellBrain wrote:

      Gilgameshkun wrote:
      It's actually stranger to treat a fully-grown humanoid bipedal person like a pet. I can think of two situations where someone treats another sentient person like a pet‚ÄĒwhen they ultimately don't respect that person as an equal, or when they're being kinky. Mikey does neither with Leatherhead.

      Raph cherished Slash most because his most cherished possession was a photo of him.

      My friends and I pegged Mikey as bisexual, and Raph as gay, especially considering Raph's indifference to women.

      And "homosexual" is not considered a very respectful word anymore, and is often quite offensive. It's too clinical and distancing at best, and has been made more derogatory because mainstream society largely no longer uses it while anti-gay people continue to do so. Please use the words "gay" (specifically) or "LGBT" (broadly), and not "homosexual."

      And please maintain a respectful tone. And I can hear your condescending tone half a world away.

      hey i wasn't trying to offend or start anything, but i was simply saying, you're way too obnoxious about your opinion and like the whole Donnie and April thing, just give it a rest... if you got some sort of condescending tone, that's just you... It was not at all my intention. Just saying, maybe you can focus the dialogue on other aspects of the show, and hey, start your own comment thread about your opinions on the characters romantic interests.... have a good day.

      This episode was centered around a character's romantic interest. *sigh* It's entirely cogent to the topic to discuss whether or not this development is a good thing.

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    • ShellBrain wrote:
      I love the designs of SalCommander and Mona Lisa... trully loved the way they moved in combat... I'm upset they didn't stick around... but I guess, they are going to be allies vs the Triceratons eventually.

      Yeah I was kind of hoping they'd travel together some more too, but I'm sure we'll see them again. And I'm so happy that we finally have allies that have non-ninja fighting experence. And more importantly, a female character that can use these alien combat techniques to beat down multiple turtles. I HAVE BEEN WAITING FOR THIS FOR 3 SEASONS! And it finally happened. And I'm really glad that it was Mona Lisa who got that privilige. Now I can't wait to see more of her. And hopefully along the way, we get more interesting female characters :]

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    • To be honest, I really, really wanted to like Mona Lisa as a character in her own right. I wanted her to be badass. I wanted her to be complex. I also wanted her not to be forced into a shoehorned romance plot. If she's genuinely a good character, I want to be able to appreciate that. I had actually hoped she and Raphael could bond like sisters. That would have maintained the continuity of his character development in the early seasons, where he was more like a sister than a brother.

      What might this episode have been like if Raph were still that sister-like brother? This episode could have had great potential for epic catfighting and sororal bonding like the mighty amazons he and Mona Lisa could have been. As it stands, Raph hasn't had a decent big sister moment since A Foot Too Big.

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote: And hopefully along the way, we get more interesting female characters¬†:]

      Raph was originally like a more interesting female character, and he could beat any one of his brothers in a match.

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      @Sugilita I like both shows. But feel the same way about BB/Rae/Ter for both. :]

      @Yoshimickster Lol Trust me dude, I am the reincarnated spirit of not arguing. The force of genuine positivity. The king of all ghosts. Yoshimickster...I...am your father.

      Ok let me stop with the bad jokes.

      But yeah I kind of meant that to an extent. If see a bitter argument brewing, I will do one of three things.

      1. Try to calm everyone down and have a nice conversation.

      2. Try to find common ground with the other person on SOMETHING we both like.

      3. Step away from the tablet and let it be.

      I do not argue. I DON'T! XD

      It was painfully obvious that Beast Boy was madly in love with Terra in the first cartoon,and if i remember correctly,the writers of the first cartoon stated that BBRae wouldn't happen in it.

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    • ShellBrain wrote: hey i wasn't trying to offend or start anything, but i was simply saying, you're way too obnoxious about your opinion and like the whole Donnie and April thing, just give it a rest... if you got some sort of condescending tone, that's just you... It was not at all my intention.

      All right, if it was not your intention, I can appreciate that. It just came off really...rather demeaning, but I can see how you might not have meant that.

      But how is my opinion obnoxious? My opinions are strong and impassioned, but obnoxiousness implies something objectionable. If you don't share my opinion, that's one thing. But having a different opinion is everyone's right, is it not? This isn't just a thread where everyone is expected to sit around and agree with each other all the time. I'm allowed to have opinions about the show that you may not share or like. I'm allowed to express them time and again, as long as I try to keep them civil. Even my criticisms about certain kinds of fans aren't actually descriptive of anyone here, but a complaint over how it influences the show's writing overall.

      And furthermore, I'm also allowed to still care about Apritello, because I do‚ÄĒthey've dragged this out long enough, and Casey has really done nothing to earn or deserve her love, so really ought to make a decision. And it's not like I necessarily object to polyandry if that's what she really wants, but the point is it's bad to drag this out forever with so little development. (I don't expect a response to this paragraph, since it was off-topic anyway.)

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    • No one ever wins these arguments, do they? They're basically a clash of opinions.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote: To be honest, I really, really wanted to like Mona Lisa as a character in her own right. I wanted her to be badass. I wanted her to be complex. I also wanted her not to be forced into a shoehorned romance plot. If she's genuinely a good character, I want to be able to appreciate that. I had actually hoped she and Raphael could bond like sisters. That would have maintained the continuity of his character development in the early seasons, where he was more like a sister than a brother.

      What might this episode have been like if Raph were still that sister-like brother? This episode could have had great potential for epic catfighting and sororal bonding like the mighty amazons he and Mona Lisa could have been. As it stands, Raph hasn't had a decent big sister moment since A Foot Too Big.

      Bond like sisters? What? You do know that Mona Lisa was a character from the 80s, right? One who also had a romance with Raphael?

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    • Zakor1138 wrote: Bond like sisters? What? You do know that Mona Lisa was a character from the 80s, right? One who also had a romance with Raphael?

      Yes, who had a romance with 1987 TV series Raphael, who was a very different character with a very different personality. That worked for them. But 2012 TV series Raphael was developed as a very different character, especially in the first two seasons. He was always more like a sister than a brother back then, and he already had deep intuitive insights in the minds of women, while appearing completely indifferent to them. Even if he had been able to find a woman he could have believable romantic chemistry with, it's impossible to believe he would have jumped into a fast and easy romance with them.

      I don't want 1987 Raphael's plots to be recycled for 2012 Raphael. I want 2012 Raphael to have plots that are suited for 2012 Raphael the way he was developed. If I wanted to watch romances written like these, I'd just watch Twilight.

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    • Yeah...I don't know what kinda sisters YOU had, but the way Raphael treated his brothers feels WICKED reminiscent of how me and my brother would treat each other at times.

      And don't compare this to Twilight, that's going to far man. Keep it above the belt.

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    • Is your brother gay?¬†:) And yes, all the people I've known who act like Raphael did in the first two seasons, have been women or gay men. I've never known a straight man to have such a perfect insight into women's thoughts the way Raph was written to be. Even a psychologist learns it academically rather than knows it intuitively. And my sisters were always first to shove, slap or insult an obnoxious sibling. They didn't take BS, and neither does Raph. But Raph also had plenty of tender, caring moments where he was the first to come to a brother's help, whether it was Donnie making a fool of himself in front of April, or checking on Mikey's arm injury, or uniquely understanding the little ways Leo was being manipulated by a cunning kunoichi (Raph's caring was genuine, even if he and Leo ended up fighting over it). Sisters are like that...and so often are gay brothers. Sisters can be tough and can fight like cats, but they can still have a strong rapport and camaraderie and care strongly for the comfort and well-being of their loved ones. Raph wasn't a tough guy‚ÄĒhe was one tough rhymes-with-witch, and he was glorious at it. Damn, I wish they hadn't derailed that aspect of him so completely...it made him so damn interesting as a character, and now he's such a bland character.

      What, so there's a Swan's Law just like there's a Godwin's Law? :P So what other analogy is there for characters without believable chemistry hooking up fast romantically? It may not have been Mikey-and-Renet fast (the more perfect Twilight analogy), but it was still pretty damn fast.

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    • There is one way Raph and Mona Lisa could have been more believably written‚ÄĒif Raph were more like a "lipstick lesbian." (That refers to a lesbian whose personality is more woman-like. It's a figure of speech‚ÄĒof course Raph would never, ever wear lipstick. XD Contrast a "chapstick lesbian" whose personality is more man-like.) His gender identity seems male, his gender brain wiring seems female, and it's entirely possible he could be the kind of male who likes women the way a female likes women. You know, the way Korra and Asami like each other. They can still handle themselves in a fight, but they have a love that grows gradually over time. You know, after a few seasons or so.¬†:P

      TMNT season 4 is obviously not even in the same ballpark as that kind of show. The attention spans they anticipate anymore are just too damn short. Certainly shorter than virtually all of ours here.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      But Raph also had plenty of tender, caring moments where he was the first to come to a brother's help, whether it was Donnie making a fool of himself in front of April, or checking on Mikey's arm injury, or uniquely understanding the little ways Leo was being manipulated by a cunning kunoichi (Raph's caring was genuine, even if he and Leo ended up fighting over it). Sisters are like that...and so often are gay brothers. Sisters can be tough and can fight like cats, but they can still have a strong rapport and camaraderie and care strongly for the comfort and well-being of their loved ones. Raph wasn't a tough guy‚ÄĒhe was one tough rhymes-with-witch, and he was glorious at it.

      I told myself not to post in this topic again, but I have to now. Both my brother and my husband are like how you described Raph and they are both 100% Straight. In fiction men who act like that are gay, but in reality there are straight men who act this way. You shouldn't put people or characters into a box, just saying.

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    • Tarrlok's the REAL Hero wrote:

      Gilgameshkun wrote:
      But Raph also had plenty of tender, caring moments where he was the first to come to a brother's help, whether it was Donnie making a fool of himself in front of April, or checking on Mikey's arm injury, or uniquely understanding the little ways Leo was being manipulated by a cunning kunoichi (Raph's caring was genuine, even if he and Leo ended up fighting over it). Sisters are like that...and so often are gay brothers. Sisters can be tough and can fight like cats, but they can still have a strong rapport and camaraderie and care strongly for the comfort and well-being of their loved ones. Raph wasn't a tough guy‚ÄĒhe was one tough rhymes-with-witch, and he was glorious at it.

      I told myself not to post in this topic again, but I have to now. Both my brother and my husband are like how you described Raph and they are both 100% Straight. In fiction men who act like that are gay, but in reality there are straight men who act this way. You shouldn't put people or characters into a box, just saying.

      I don't doubt there actually are some straight men who act like that specific characteristic‚ÄĒI wasn't implying there were none. That was one among multiple characteristics I was listing collectively. Put together with the other personality characteristics I listed, the more specific personality type comes to light.¬†:) Because, I know it's not always good to put real people in a box. But when it comes to stories, characters and continuity, I will put them into tropes.

      Besides, I was also drawing on many of my own experiences with family and friends. Your Mileage May Vary (TM). :)

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    • Honestly I love the new characters and story line. But the turtles seem to have turned into talentless comedy acts. There have been fights that the turtles should have kicked butt but they got their shells handed to them, and don't try to tell me they're just not used to space yet because they went to dimension x and kicked butt with only like an hour of adjustment time. Plus there were way weirder things to get used to. I was disappointed with the fact that NO ONE made fun of Raph. With Leo and Donnie everyone laughed at them and they have made fun of Raph before so their not scared. Basically I'm just waiting for the turtles to start acting like the freaking ninja turtles.

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    • Turtlefan149 wrote: Honestly I love the new characters and story line. But the turtles seem to have turned into talentless comedy acts. There have been fights that the turtles should have kicked butt but they got their shells handed to them, and don't try to tell me they're just not used to space yet because they went to dimension x and kicked butt with only like an hour of adjustment time. Plus there were way weirder things to get used to. I was disappointed with the fact that NO ONE made fun of Raph. With Leo and Donnie everyone laughed at them and they have made fun of Raph before so their not scared. Basically I'm just waiting for the turtles to start acting like the freaking ninja turtles.

      Amen. This made Zog's denouncement of the turtles in Dinosaur Seen in Sewers! so much more scathing in its truth. Raph was an ass, and he and his brothers had become incompetent. And they still are. It was fun when Raph was a glorious rhymes-with-witch, because he could back it up with badassery and savvy. Now it's just sad that he's become such an inept manipulative ass.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:

      Besides, I was also drawing on many of my own experiences with family and friends. Your Mileage May Vary (TM). :)

      Yeeeeeeeeeeeeah but that's not really a GOOD thing when you apply it to fiction and treat it as canon. I once again posit that your interpretation of Raphael is based on YOUR personal experiences and not those of everyone in the entire TMNT fandom. The most important part of criticism is keeping other people's perspectives in your thought process.

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    • Thank you Gilgameshkun. ¬†You know how bad the 2005 season 6 or 7 (can't remember) back to the sewers was. Yeah we're already there in the 2012 series.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:¬†But when it comes to stories, characters and continuity, I will put them into tropes.¬†Besides, I was also drawing on many of my own experiences with family and friends. Your Mileage May Vary (TM).¬†:)

      I give up.

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    • You are free to do so, escape, ESCAPE from this madness.

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:
      You are free to do so, escape, ESCAPE from this madness.

      lol Yeah, I'm not coming back to this topic again.

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:

      Gilgameshkun wrote:

      Besides, I was also drawing on many of my own experiences with family and friends. Your Mileage May Vary (TM). :)

      Yeeeeeeeeeeeeah but that's not really a GOOD thing when you apply it to fiction and treat it as canon. I once again posit that your interpretation of Raphael is based on YOUR personal experiences and not those of everyone in the entire TMNT fandom. The most important part of criticism is keeping other people's perspectives in your thought process.

      I do try to do that. But I don't know the entire fandom, and I don't like every TMNT work there is, so naturally I'm going to meet fans with fundamentally different interests and perspectives from me such that it's difficult to see eye to eye sometimes. Away from this wiki, most of my discussions are with a circle of TMNT fan friends, most of whom are LGBT guys.

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    • Turtlefan149 wrote: Thank you Gilgameshkun. ¬†You know how bad the 2005 season 6 or 7 (can't remember) back to the sewers was. Yeah we're already there in the 2012 series.

      Yeah, one of my friends said something similar. He lamented that it's too soon for 2K12 to become like Fast Forward.

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    • Yoshimickster wrote: You are free to do so, escape, ESCAPE from this madness.

      Having a fundamental difference of opinion and perspective is not madness. It's the human condition...unless that's what you meant by madness. :)

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    • Its the argument that is madness, a pointless argument about the sexuality of a human/turtle hybrid and a homind salamander! They like each other, who the shell are we to judge based on our personal experiences and not there's? Donald Trump may become presiden, North Korea threatens us ALL the time, Nintendo makes the same game thirty time sin a row, there's MUCH more stuff to gripe about.

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    • This is a fandom. You know better than that. Fans discuss stuff about the shows they follow that matter to them.

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    • Yes, but SHOULD it matter to us that much? Should we not take it with a grain of salt? Should we take it LESS seriously than we should? I mean hell the creators sure didn't, the conception art was on a damn bar napkin! Shredder's original death was by a bloody thermite grenade-WHERE DID HE GET THAT?!¬†

      When the shell is something just a something?!

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    • Yoshimickster wrote: Yes, but SHOULD it matter to us that much? Should we not take it with a grain of salt? Should we take it LESS seriously than we should?

      Maybe it shouldn't. But we all have hobbies and interests. Never underestimate a fan's devotion. Don't forget that "fan" is actually short for "fanatic." We are fanatic about the things we love.

      I mean hell the creators sure didn't, the conception art was on a damn bar napkin!

      Initially it didn't matter much to them. Then it came to matter more to them over time. Kevin Eastman said that his time with Mirage was one of the most exciting times of his life.

      Consider this: It took me a while to really become a fan of the 2K12 series. (I was already a devoted fan of Mirage and Palladium, and later also Mutant Ninja Turtles Gaiden.) My first hunch was, "Nickelodeon doing TMNT? I doubt it'll be that good." And the one thing that finally snagged my devoted fandom? Raph and Slash's engaging story. The single most interesting animated storyline I'd seen since Arashi no Yoru ni. I came to like other things too in this series‚ÄĒSplinter, Apritello, Mikeyhead, Leorai, Spike before he mutated, hell even Jason, and all the attention to detail the show puts into body language and easter eggs‚ÄĒbut this Raph and Slash and their complicated relationship had become the keystone of my interest in this show. I like other TMNT works for their own different reasons, but this was the single largest of the various reasons I liked 2K12.

      People have different reasons for liking a work of fiction. Some things are more important to them than others. This is one of those things.

      And since the show quietly buried their storyline, I kept watching, kept hoping, that it would come back in some form again. There were just too many uncashed plot coupons the show had left dangling. Even when Mona Lisa was announced in advance, I hoped she could be developed as a good warrior sister character and keep Raph's previous character development intact. But when I finally saw what they did with them, it was an unbelievable feeling of fan betrayal. The rewriting of Raph's character was complete, and he was now a complete stranger to the character I remembered.

      One of my friends who had already dumped the show, opined that this was just symptomatic of a bigger problem the show had developed‚ÄĒit was getting cheaper and dumber in general. We still loved what we had seen in the past, but 2K12 was increasingly no longer worth the fuss.

      ...except for me. I'm #2 most achieved editor on this wiki, ahead of even all of the administrators. I have edited 2K12 articles extensively for almost two years. I wrote large parts of them. And there's the already mentioned more than 1000 GIFs, and smaller numbers of collages, screenshots, and documentation of textual easter eggs. I even searched the world for someone fluent in Chinese who could read Traditional Chinese characters to verify that this scroll was indeed gibberish. I wasn't just a fan‚ÄĒI was the fan. It's a fanship that doesn't die easily, or prettily.

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    • I bet I'm not only one who hopes that Mona Lisa would come back soon... Raph is just so adorable when he's crushing on her! I fangirled so hard! XDDDD

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      Sugilita wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Jadepalacetrainee wrote:
      I don't know about you guys but I'm all aboard the RaphxMona ship!!! Woot Wooooot!!!
      I am also aboard that ship, my friend. And this episode was a great start for it. :]
      Totally, I especially love how it wasn't instant love, it took some getting to know each other, or more specifically, it took Mona kicking Raph's butt!!! XD
      Shell yeah! She kicked their all shells in this one. Tbh I think Donnie got the worst of it, especially when Mona cracked his shelly walnuts (wink wink)

      And yeah my thoughts exactly. I was afraid that this was going to be like the Mikey/Renet syndrome. But this episode literally turned out perfect. Mona and Raph really grew on each other and developed throughout this episode while also not making us wait for them to get together. And I got chills for that last scene when the were both about to die. The fact that they kissed made me happy, and i keep saying this, but the others' reaction was TOO PRICELESS. I can't wait to see more of her and where these two lovebirds will go from here.

      Amen my friend!
      What?Mona kicked Don in the nuts?This must hurt. :'D
      K I'm female and I cringed when I saw that part lol!
      I shed a tear for Donnie when I saw this...
      File:Tumblr nx5ol7W5O61uclwkdo7 250.gif
      File:Tumblr nx5ol7W5O61uclwkdo8 250.gif

      I'm cringing and laughing because Raph is using this moment to compliment Mona like "you kneed my bro in the balls dang that's kinda hot!"
      LOL I KNOW! That's the crazy thing about it. It's like something straight out of Family Guy. I guess seeing a girl who really knows how to hit a guy below the belt is what really turns Raph on XD. It's moment why I really love this show. This episode is definitely going in my top favorites list XD.

      Same here my friend!

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    • Sugilita wrote:

      It was painfully obvious that Beast Boy was madly in love with Terra in the first cartoon,and if i remember correctly,the writers of the first cartoon stated that BBRae wouldn't happen in it.

      While it is true that Beast Boy fell head over heels for Terra, look how it turned out. If we're being brutally honest, Terra was a traiter from the very start. She and Slade orcistrated that monster attack that caused her to meet the Titans. She convinced the Titans to add her to the team and¬†took her back to the Tower. And then she started using the titans. She used Beast Boy to get confidential information for Slade to find out their weaknesses and eliminate them all (including BB).‚Äč So whatever feelings‚Äč Terra had for Beast Boy apparently wasn't enough for her to even hesitate about eliminating him. Plus, in "Aftershocks Part 1" She spcifically told Robin that Slade isn't making her do anything and she chose to eliminate them. The only time she rebelled against Slade was when she started to not like how he was treating her, which is kind of self-imposed if you ask me. Overall, that pairing was pretty onesided which is why I don't like it.

      Raven on the other hand seems like a more believable candidate to me. And yes, BBRae unfortunately didn't happen fully happen in the first cartoon but the fact that they were together in the comics made the show hint very heavily at their relationship. The official head writer, David Slack even stated he intentionally wrote Beast Boy and Raven as a "married couple", hence the relationship was one of deep loyalty and affection, but also laced with conflicting personality clashes. This "tough love" relationship between Beast Boy and Raven is continued in Trouble in Tokyo, also written by Slack. Episodes like "Spellbound and "The Beast Within" emphasized their developing relationship. Although they got on each others nerves, became hostile and closed off from the other at times, they always reconciled and learned more about each other. This makes their pairing more enticing and believable to me.

      But I don't want to start a shipping war so this is probably my last comment on that topic. Now I have a better question for you. What do you think about the Mona Lisa and Raphael pairing? I know it's early but I'd like to know you think about it :]

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      Sugilita wrote:

      It was painfully obvious that Beast Boy was madly in love with Terra in the first cartoon,and if i remember correctly,the writers of the first cartoon stated that BBRae wouldn't happen in it.

      While it is true that Beast Boy fell head over heels for Terra, look how it turned out. If we're being brutally honest, Terra was a traiter from the very start. She and Slade orcistrated that monster attack that caused her to meet the Titans. She convinced the Titans to add her to the team and¬†took her back to the Tower. And then she started using the titans. She used Beast Boy to get confidential information for Slade to find out their weaknesses and eliminate them all (including BB).‚Äč So whatever feelings‚Äč Terra had for Beast Boy apparently wasn't enough for her to even hesitate about eliminating him. Plus, in "Aftershocks Part 1" She spcifically told Robin that Slade isn't making her do anything and she chose to eliminate them. The only time she rebelled against Slade was when she started to not like how he was treating her, which is kind of self-imposed if you ask me. Overall, that pairing was pretty onesided which is why I don't like it.

      Raven on the other hand seems like a more believable candidate to me. And yes, BBRae unfortunately didn't happen fully happen in the first cartoon but the fact that they were together in the comics made the show hint very heavily at their relationship. The official head writer, David Slack even stated he intentionally wrote Beast Boy and Raven as a "married couple", hence the relationship was one of deep loyalty and affection, but also laced with conflicting personality clashes. This "tough love" relationship between Beast Boy and Raven is continued in Trouble in Tokyo, also written by Slack. Episodes like "Spellbound and "The Beast Within" emphasized their developing relationship. Although they got on each others nerves, became hostile and closed off from the other at times, they always reconciled and learned more about each other. This makes their pairing more enticing and believable to me.

      But I don't want to start a shipping war so this is probably my last comment on that topic. Now I have a better question for you. What do you think about the Mona Lisa and Raphael pairing? I know it's early but I'd like to know you think about it :]

      I would never start a shipping war,so don't worry.And i know that in the comics BBRae is canon,and i never liked the comic version of Terra. :/

      I really like Ramona,i believe they are a cool match,and i highly believe that mostly the yaoi and Raph fangirls would hate it. :)

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:

      Courage203 wrote: I Read this,but WHERE ARE APRIL AND CASEY!!!!

      IKR!?! They appeared in the clip so they were obviously in the episode. Shell, one of the things I was curious about for this episode was to how the two humans would interact with Ik'thba. Particularly Casey, since he is not used to seeing/interacting with too many mutants/aliens of the opposite gender aside from the hybrid April, who he tends to flirt with. And we already know how his last encounter with one went down.

      Karai kisses Casey

      Just don't try anything Jones. K?

      Technically, it was Karai who kissed him, and she wasn't even in control of herself.  That only went bad because of actions she couldn't control.  Plus, there aren't many female mutants for him to flirt with.  Though this does make me wonder something.  Does Casey have a thing for female mutants?  Because even I find Miwa's serpent form attractive!

      Yes, I find her mutation hot!

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:

      ...except for me. I'm #2 most achieved editor on this wiki, ahead of even all of the administrators. I have edited 2K12 articles extensively for almost two years. I wrote large parts of them. And there's the already mentioned more than 1000 GIFs, and smaller numbers of collages, screenshots, and documentation of textual easter eggs. I even searched the world for someone fluent in Chinese who could read Traditional Chinese characters to verify that this scroll was indeed gibberish. I wasn't just a fan‚ÄĒI was the fan. It's a fanship that doesn't die easily, or prettily.

      Not for nothing man but...that's all on you. YOU decided to put the time into this show, the creators didn't ask you to. I implore again, please take a break from this, you need it.

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    • Yoshimickster wrote: Not for nothing man but...that's all on you. YOU decided to put the time into this show, the creators didn't ask you to.

      If only it were that simple. When my friends ditched this show, they didn't do so easily or prettily either. They were filled with anger and disgust at how the show derailed itself. I didn't start watching this show expecting this. I started watching this show because it appealed to me really strongly, and really deeply. And they wrote it to attract people's interest. The show's plot had more subtleties, and kept writing plot coupons that could only be awesome when cashed. And then they increasingly stopped cashing them.

      When you make a show, you don't blame the fans for watching the show when they start panning it. It's like a restaurant that blames patrons for not liking the food they serve. If those same patrons all originally liked the restaurant, then a loss of 20-25% of them is nothing to sneeze at. McDonald's has the ability to replace lost customers with new ones through lots of advertising and really cheap food‚ÄĒthat doesn't make it a good restaurant. Subway manages to remain a decent restaurant even under the fast food formula. Likewise, TMNT 2K12 never pretend it wasn't mass-marketed entertainment, but it used to be a lot better than it is now. And I as a viewer and fan, have every right to feel my devotion to it betrayed.

      I implore again, please take a break from this, you need it.

      However, on that, you may be right. I just haven't figured out a way to stop caring when I see the updates on the Wiki Activity page. I still need to edit Turtlepedia articles for certain other non-2K12 works. I'm the primary editor for Mutant Ninja Turtles Gaiden articles, a series which has consistently not disappointed.

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    • UltimateTitan6
      UltimateTitan6 removed this reply because:
      Can't fix by editing :[
      21:29, November 3, 2015
      This reply has been removed
    • Sugilita wrote:

      I would never start a shipping war,so don't worry.And i know that in the comics BBRae is canon,and i never liked the comic version of Terra. :/

      I really like Ramona,i believe they are a cool match,and i highly believe that mostly the yaoi and Raph fangirls would hate it. :)

      Yeah. I can understand that. Terra was MUCH worse in the comics, and even the new show to an extent. The 2K3 version was the pretty much the only version that did her some justice and even remotely made her likable. I think that series is why so many people liked her and still like her today.

      You call them Ramona ūüė≥? That's a pretty cute ship name. I usually just call them Raphaelisa. And I agree. I'm glad we FINALLY have a couple in this series who's relationship is actually taken seriously and isn't just a side joke like Mikey/Renet. And with two really badass characters two (Mona being Much more badass than Raph) while having soft spots at the same time. Their relationship developed very well in this episode. I'm also happy that the writers didn't make us wait a thousand episodes before some depth was made. I STILL CAN'T BELIEVE THEY KISSED! I can't wait to see more development on their relationship and much more of Mona Lisa, hopefully very soon. Sorry girls but Chill Out!! Mona Lisa has entered the shell!

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    • Yeah, the romance between Raph and Mona is pretty great. ¬†I personally think they have the best ship in the show so far! ¬†I also think it's much deeper then Renet and Mikey. ¬†Because for Raph, he "likes" her for more then her looks, he also likes her for her abilities!

      I have to say the first good thing of Season 4 that the writers have done is this!  Raph and Mona have such a deep relationship and it's very well developed in this episode!  I would love to see them bond more in another episode!

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    • DPfanboy wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:

      Courage203 wrote: I Read this,but WHERE ARE APRIL AND CASEY!!!!

      IKR!?! They appeared in the clip so they were obviously in the episode. Shell, one of the things I was curious about for this episode was to how the two humans would interact with Ik'thba. Particularly Casey, since he is not used to seeing/interacting with too many mutants/aliens of the opposite gender aside from the hybrid April, who he tends to flirt with. And we already know how his last encounter with one went down.

      Karai kisses Casey

      Just don't try anything Jones. K?

      Technically, it was Karai who kissed him, and she wasn't even in control of herself.  That only went bad because of actions she couldn't control.  Plus, there aren't many female mutants for him to flirt with.  Though this does make me wonder something.  Does Casey have a thing for female mutants?  Because even I find Miwa's serpent form attractive!

      Yes, I find her mutation hot!

      I never said who kissed who. My point was pretty much the question you asked. Does Casey have a thing for female mutants? Judging by the two that he knows I would say yes. Casey enjoyed it. Remember, at this chronological point in the show the only two named female characters were April and Karai (which in my book is a disappointment, yes I know). And considering Casey has a crush on one of them and flirted with the other before enjoying that mutant kiss, I was kind of interested to see how Casey would interact with Mona Lisa. But they didn't really interact at all in this one, kinda like he does with mutants other than the turtles, which makes sense. But he did cringe in disgust when she and Raph kissed, so I guess that means he doesn't find her attractive. Maybe? I don't know.

      But yeah, I'm with you Casey. I've got a thing for female mutants/aliens too. They're HOT! If Raph didn't already snag Mona Lisa, I would have tried to hit that. When I first saw her art, I was like "hm nice design. Can't wait to see her in-show." But when I saw how she moved in this show, I was like "Dang girl! Your body's rockin. I need you in my life." And those LIPS! MMM!

      Yup. That's right. I'm weird.

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:

      Sugilita wrote:

      I would never start a shipping war,so don't worry.And i know that in the comics BBRae is canon,and i never liked the comic version of Terra. :/

      I really like Ramona,i believe they are a cool match,and i highly believe that mostly the yaoi and Raph fangirls would hate it. :)

      Yeah. I can understand that. Terra was MUCH worse in the comics, and even the new show to an extent. The 2K3 version was the pretty much the only version that did her some justice and even remotely made her likable. I think that series is why so many people liked her and still like her today.

      You call them Ramona ūüė≥? That's a pretty cute ship name. I usually just call them Raphaelisa. And I agree. I'm glad we FINALLY have a couple in this series who's relationship is actually taken seriously and isn't just a side joke like Mikey/Renet. And with two really badass characters two (Mona being Much more badass than Raph) while having soft spots at the same time. Their relationship developed very well in this episode. I'm also happy that the writers didn't make us wait a thousand episodes before some depth was made. I STILL CAN'T BELIEVE THEY KISSED! I can't wait to see more development on their relationship and much more of Mona Lisa, hopefully very soon. Sorry girls but Chill Out!! Mona Lisa has entered the shell!

      Yes,the 2k3 Terra wasn't evil,she was just lost.And i was sad when in the episode "Things Change"she has forgotten about BB and the others(Or she was just pretending,who knows.). [1]


      Yeah,one couple were we don't need to wait 200 episodes full with teasing,i hope she will be a secondary character,and i find it funny how the fans of the 1987 Mona complain that the new Mona isn't like the old one. :)

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      DPfanboy wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:

      Courage203 wrote: I Read this,but WHERE ARE APRIL AND CASEY!!!!

      IKR!?! They appeared in the clip so they were obviously in the episode. Shell, one of the things I was curious about for this episode was to how the two humans would interact with Ik'thba. Particularly Casey, since he is not used to seeing/interacting with too many mutants/aliens of the opposite gender aside from the hybrid April, who he tends to flirt with. And we already know how his last encounter with one went down.

      Karai kisses Casey

      Just don't try anything Jones. K?

      Technically, it was Karai who kissed him, and she wasn't even in control of herself.  That only went bad because of actions she couldn't control.  Plus, there aren't many female mutants for him to flirt with.  Though this does make me wonder something.  Does Casey have a thing for female mutants?  Because even I find Miwa's serpent form attractive!

      Yes, I find her mutation hot!

      I never said who kissed who. My point was pretty much the question you asked. Does Casey have a thing for female mutants? Judging by the two that he knows I would say yes. Casey enjoyed it. Remember, at this chronological point in the show the only two named female characters were April and Karai (which in my book is a disappointment, yes I know). And considering Casey has a crush on one of them and flirted with the other before enjoying that mutant kiss, I was kind of interested to see how Casey would interact with Mona Lisa. But they didn't really interact at all in this one, kinda like he does with mutants other than the turtles, which makes sense. But he did cringe in disgust when she and Raph kissed, so I guess that means he doesn't find her attractive. Maybe? I don't know.

      But yeah, I'm with you Casey. I've got a thing for female mutants/aliens too. They're HOT! If Raph didn't already snag Mona Lisa, I would have tried to hit that. When I first saw her art, I was like "hm nice design. Can't wait to see her in-show." But when I saw how she moved in this show, I was like "Dang girl! Your body's rockin. I need you in my life."

      Yup. That's right. I'm weird.

      Well, here's something we forgot to consider.  The only 2 female mutants we have on this show have completely human forms.  (Even Miwa!)  That could be the reason why Casey doesn't flirt with Mona, because she doesn't look human.  I'm not saying Casey is biased in his choice of girls, in fact he's flirted with mutants so I really don't think he's biased, I'm just trying to give a reason as to why he didn't flirt with her.

      Hey, you're not weird.  I find Miwa totally attractive!  Even as a giant serpent!  I would love to lay in bed with her wrapped around me!  (Sorry if that sounds dirty.)

      So, yeah, don't think you're the only one who has weird tastes in these characters.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:

      Gil, you kinda missed my point. I'm not blaming you for not liking the direction it went, I'm saying maybe focusing SO much energy into a fictional story might be the reason you took it so hard when it went in a direction you didn't see coming. Plus, was that really why you did what you did? Because you expected the writers to tailor to you and your friends specifically? Or did you do it because you loved the turtles, because the act of contributing is reward enough? Stories change, people change, that's life, and we all have to accept it painful as it may be. 

      And its actually not that hard, it just FEELS hard. Rip off the band-aid, clean off the gunk, call it a day. Ain't no point leaving it on for longer than it needs to. Please take a break man, for yourself.

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    • DPfanboy wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      DPfanboy wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:

      Courage203 wrote: I Read this,but WHERE ARE APRIL AND CASEY!!!!

      IKR!?! They appeared in the clip so they were obviously in the episode. Shell, one of the things I was curious about for this episode was to how the two humans would interact with Ik'thba. Particularly Casey, since he is not used to seeing/interacting with too many mutants/aliens of the opposite gender aside from the hybrid April, who he tends to flirt with. And we already know how his last encounter with one went down.

      Karai kisses Casey

      Just don't try anything Jones. K?

      Technically, it was Karai who kissed him, and she wasn't even in control of herself.  That only went bad because of actions she couldn't control.  Plus, there aren't many female mutants for him to flirt with.  Though this does make me wonder something.  Does Casey have a thing for female mutants?  Because even I find Miwa's serpent form attractive!

      Yes, I find her mutation hot!

      I never said who kissed who. My point was pretty much the question you asked. Does Casey have a thing for female mutants? Judging by the two that he knows I would say yes. Casey enjoyed it. Remember, at this chronological point in the show the only two named female characters were April and Karai (which in my book is a disappointment, yes I know). And considering Casey has a crush on one of them and flirted with the other before enjoying that mutant kiss, I was kind of interested to see how Casey would interact with Mona Lisa. But they didn't really interact at all in this one, kinda like he does with mutants other than the turtles, which makes sense. But he did cringe in disgust when she and Raph kissed, so I guess that means he doesn't find her attractive. Maybe? I don't know.

      But yeah, I'm with you Casey. I've got a thing for female mutants/aliens too. They're HOT! If Raph didn't already snag Mona Lisa, I would have tried to hit that. When I first saw her art, I was like "hm nice design. Can't wait to see her in-show." But when I saw how she moved in this show, I was like "Dang girl! Your body's rockin. I need you in my life."

      Yup. That's right. I'm weird.

      Well, here's something we forgot to consider.  The only 2 female mutants we have on this show have completely human forms.  (Even Miwa!)  That could be the reason why Casey doesn't flirt with Mona, because she doesn't look human.  I'm not saying Casey is biased in his choice of girls, in fact he's flirted with mutants so I really don't think he's biased, I'm just trying to give a reason as to why he didn't flirt with her.

      Hey, you're not weird.  I find Miwa totally attractive!  Even as a giant serpent!  I would love to lay in bed with her wrapped around me!  (Sorry if that sounds dirty.)

      So, yeah, don't think you're the only one who has weird tastes in these characters.

      Yeah, I'd love getting smooched by those pretty little lips Mona has. And that flexible tail just pulling our bodies together...oh rakaRAKKARAKKARAKKA!

      Okay I better stop now.

      Yeah, your point about Casey flirting with human mutants seems very possible. I guess that's Casey's perception of girls.

      This is for you, mutant/alien girls of TMNT! If you want to date Casey Jones (which you probably don't. Trust me, you can do WAAAY better), here's all that you need to know. He doesn't care if you're the weirdest, grossest, or most horrifying sub-species that ever walked the earth. As long as you look like a pretty human girl, you're golden. Good Luck, ladies! ūüėéūüĎć

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:

      This is for you, mutant/alien girls of TMNT! If you want to date Casey Jones (which you probably don't. Trust me, you can do WAAAY better), here's all that you need to know. He doesn't care if you're the weirdest, grossest, or most horrifying sub-species that ever walked the earth. As long as you look like a pretty human girl, you're golden. Good Luck, ladies! ūüėéūüĎć

      Can't wait for the episode where April grows Kraang fangs and antennae, that'll be craaaaaaazy!

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:
      UltimateTitan6 wrote:

      This is for you, mutant/alien girls of TMNT! If you want to date Casey Jones (which you probably don't. Trust me, you can do WAAAY better), here's all that you need to know. He doesn't care if you're the weirdest, grossest, or most horrifying sub-species that ever walked the earth. As long as you look like a pretty human girl, you're golden. Good Luck, ladies! ūüėéūüĎć

      Can't wait for the episode where April grows Kraang fangs and antennae, that'll be craaaaaaazy!

      What you said is by far the worst idea I have ever heard.

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    • DPfanboy wrote:

      What you said is by far the worst idea I have ever heard.

      Deeps, you're on the TMNT wiki, you KNOW there are worse ideas. 

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    • Yoshimickster wrote: Gil, you kinda missed my point. I'm not blaming you for not liking the direction it went, I'm saying maybe focusing SO much energy into a fictional story might be the reason you took it so hard when it went in a direction you didn't see coming. Plus, was that really why you did what you did? Because you expected the writers to tailor to you and your friends specifically?

      Not us specifically, but it had certain elements that snagged us as fans, and seemed to promise to get better in that regard. Note that some characters were indeed written in some very different ways earlier in the series, and we loved those characters. They were retooled over time in ways inconsistent with natural character development. When that happens, it's called character derailment. Many people may indeed love the changes, but usually only if the previous developments were not so important to them as fans.

      If the series suddenly had Donatello showing no interest in April without explanation, a lot of people might take notice. The fact that a lot of people didn't notice the collapse of Raph and Slash's storyline likely had more to do with many people not expecting to see gay love interests on a TV-Y7 show (or in society in general), rendering it effectively invisible to them. (And for gay people who want society to respect them more, abject invisibility can be a very soul-crushing feeling.) Even after The Legend of Korra ended and in those few days before Korrasami were announced as canon, there was an online chaos between people who knew exactly what they saw (two women in love), and people who conspicuously required more evidence to believe same-sex relationships than to believe opposite-sex relationships. Straight people routinely require so little evidence to believe opposite-sex relationships. Hell, lots of people on this wiki are still assuming Karai is Leo's girlfriend, when it was still never clear whether Karai ever felt for Leo the same way Leo felt for her. But gay people who actually regularly watch these shows, know that writers can and do sneak this past the radar, just as Bryke did on The Legend of Korra for two seasons before their announcement. And gay people know just how much many of these fictional situations are so uniquely realistically relatable to their own lives as gay people, and they still have no trouble telling the difference between opposite-sex chemistry and same-sex chemistry and recognizing both when they happen.

      Or did you do it because you loved the turtles, because the act of contributing is reward enough?

      I can think of no TMNT fan I've known before who does it for that reason. Of course TMNT fan love is often conditional. Some fans drew a line at 1987's European vacation season. Some fans drew a line at The Next Mutation. Some fans drew a line at Fast Forward. Some fans drew a line at Michael Bay's movie. I mean, yeah, we're TMNT fans who often dump a certain TMNT production (or parts of it) because it's terrible, and we still like other TMNT works. Fans draw lines for various reasons, and I'd never met a fan whose interest in all forms of TMNT could keep him supportive the whole way.

      ...until now. One of my friends warned me that you might be that kind of fan. Speaking from experience, he said you might be impossible to reason with in an argument. But my friends and I, none of us want to be that kind of unconditional TMNT fan. It's like liking every single music genre under the sun, liking every different food under the sun‚ÄĒwe would go insane trying them all, when some of them will feel just plain awful.

      Stories change, people change, that's life, and we all have to accept it painful as it may be. 

      That is true. But no one every said it was always going to be a graceful process.

      And its actually not that hard, it just FEELS hard. Rip off the band-aid, clean off the gunk, call it a day. Ain't no point leaving it on for longer than it needs to. Please take a break man, for yourself.

      A break from 2K12 after the middle of season three (after The Deadly Venom or so), and I've already stopped contributing to any of the new articles outside of this specific discussion with you, if you check my edit history log. This is so I can continue to consult older canon shared by Amazing Adventures. But trying to ignore what 2K12 is doing lately will continue to be a work-in-progress. And if you're still an active fan of works still closely related to it, it won't be as trivial as ignoring Twilight or Justin Bieber. You have to realize that this cannot be like just ripping off a bandage all at once, because it's not like we've stopped being fans of other TMNT works. It's easier for those of us who can just focus our attention into individual shows or comics and pretend the rest don't exist. But I regularly edit at a wiki and am responsible for other parts of the wiki. And for regular editors at this wiki, it's certainly been uncomfortable in the past, such as during Fast Forward and Back to the Sewers, before I started editing here. And now you're seeing what my fan dissatisfaction can look like, and you should realize it has never been pretty.

      You should hear what Sugilita has to say about Apritello. That's not pretty to see either, but I still understand and relate to the feeling of strong distaste for certain active elements in TMNT shows. :P

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:
      DPfanboy wrote:

      What you said is by far the worst idea I have ever heard.

      Deeps, you're on the TMNT wiki, you KNOW there are worse ideas. 

      Worse then April getting a more Kraang-like appearance?!

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    • DPfanboy wrote:

      Worse then April getting a more Kraang-like appearance?!

      Critic & Nerd TMNT Coming Out of Their Shells

      Critic & Nerd TMNT Coming Out of Their Shells

      Picked the Channel Awesome version for obvious reasons.
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    • And Gil...take a brake. The wiki will still be here, triviatic facts about the metaseries will still be added. All I'm gonna say.

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    • I kind of had mixed feelings on this episode, at one point I thought the episode was fun but on the whole Mona Lisa front, I enjoyed the character but I found the whole romance between her and Raphael to be a bit rushed and sometimes a little creepy...

      At the end I found it cute and I'm not saying I hate the episode just...

      I have mixed feelings

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    • Ok, what I wanna know is where the heck the title came from? I didn't hear them mention at any point in the episode that they were on a moon, much less specifying they were on a moon of a planet called Thalos 3.

      I guess you could infer from the title that that's where they were, but it hardly seemed to be relevant to anything in the episode itself.

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    • Aquamarine1212 wrote:
      Ok, what I wanna know is where the heck the title came from? I didn't hear them mention at any point in the episode that they were on a moon, much less specifying they were on a moon of a planet called Thalos 3.

      I guess you could infer from the title that that's where they were, but it hardly seemed to be relevant to anything in the episode itself.

      The title is a little odd. Now that I think about they should have given the episode a better title.

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    • My guess is they didn't want the name to be TOO obvious, so they went with the whacky Star Trek style name.

      Also, what the shell is it with alien cultures and naming their extra planets? "Omicron Persei 8" BE CREATIVE! A planet is not a movie sequel!

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:
      My guess is they didn't want the name to be TOO obvious, so they went with the whacky Star Trek style name.

      Also, what the shell is it with alien cultures and naming their extra planets? "Omicron Persei 8" BE CREATIVE! A planet is not a movie sequel!

      You could always argue that since it's the third moon of a planet that there would be three moons...

      Also Omicron persei 8 is a parody in the Futurama universe

      You could also say Frieza planet 419

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    • Or the COUNTLESS examples in Star Trek. I mean really, we named the planets in our system after our GODS, you just copied your planet name and added a new number to it. They have the same naming system as EA!

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    • 0_o I think your focusing too much on the names some aliens give planets, not every planet needs a cool, awesome name, plus they don't really add to the story of this episode¬†

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    • Drew Comika wrote:
      0_o I think your focusing too much on the names some aliens give planets, not every planet needs a cool, awesome name, plus they don't really add to the story of this episode 

      Yeah I know, it just BUGS me is all.

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:
      DPfanboy wrote:

      Worse then April getting a more Kraang-like appearance?!

      Critic & Nerd TMNT Coming Out of Their Shells

      Critic & Nerd TMNT Coming Out of Their Shells

      Picked the Channel Awesome version for obvious reasons.

      Regardless, April getting a more Kraang-like appearance is still a stupid idea.

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    • YOUR A STUPID IDEA! *STORMS OFF*

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:
      YOUR A STUPID IDEA! *STORMS OFF*

      Whoa! Whoa! Settle down.

        Loading editor
    • I will NOT settle down! I'm gonna go to my room and right poetry about obscure cartoon characters!

      Edit: *Cricket sounds, cricket sound* Nothing?

        Loading editor
    • A FANDOM user
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