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  • (If you're too immature then don't answer. I will not answer to childish remarks and please be respectable with good criticism when or if you answer. All opinions are welcomed just be thoughtful about it and this is my opinion so don't get your panties in a twist. And if others do others answer, please respect each other's opinions. We don't want fights brewing here.)

    I know what you are thinking right now when you saw this title. You're thinking she should stay dead and never reappear on T.V. or any movies. Now I know she wasn't received well because of her bad puns, terrible jokes and too many references for her character but by now I think her hatred has taken a bit too far now. For god's sake, there's a petition to keep her off T.V. which is a complete waste of time and just flat out stupid. I have no problem of adding female members to teams like this like April and Kirai (Sometimes Mona Lisa) but people wouldn't give her a chance now because of the things that happened during her appearances.

    I think she deserves a second chance because this hatred has gone long enough now plus it could do better if she was rewritten and redeveloped she would at least be more approachable. Then she would have a better chance of coming back to the screens. The TMNT 2012 show is out because she already made her cameo in there but the Michael Bay TMNT Movies might make it possible so why not; same goes for Mona Lisa.

    All I'm saying is let's be a little bit more open-minded about her because I know she can be redeemed and hopefully make her a better character.

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    • Finally, someone who belives Venus should come back.

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    • Master DA
      Master DA removed this reply because:
      It was not able to pass on to the last message
      06:55, November 23, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Weekyle15 wrote:
      Finally, someone who belives Venus should come back.

      Exactly my friend. She's under appreciated and unlikable now.

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    • Oh, I want Venus back, too! Me and my brother!

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    • Morty340 wrote:
      Oh, I want Venus back, too! Me and my brother!

      I know right! I just think she deserves another chance.

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    • Gilgameshkun
      Gilgameshkun removed this reply because:
      Withdrawing.
      18:31, October 22, 2017
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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Venus De Milo was a lame idea to begin with. I think Sophie Campbell's Artemisia is done better.

      That's because it's a fan made character and only you think so because how badly Venus was handled. That's why I think she should have a reboot. Badly written characters always get rebooted.

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    • Gilgameshkun
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      Withdrawing.
      18:31, October 22, 2017
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    • Gilgameshkun wrote: Well, the problem is, whereas "Leonardo", "Donatello", etc. were names of artists, "Venus de Milo" was the name of specific naked statue of a goddess of love, beauty and sex, and naming a character that will evoke that mental image as a first impression. It aims too directly at the fantasies of horny fanboys, discouraging them from regarding her first and foremost as someone who could actually be a complex, dignified character. Might as well name her "Fujiko" or "Molotov @#$%tease" for all the good it does. The fact that the 90s Venus de Milo was fought over by two male main characters made it even worse.

      Furthermore, the use of Venus de Milo goes into the type of TMNT I really dislike—the kind that assumes it is primarily a story by hetero guys, for hetero guys, about hetero guys, with girls functioning more as props or objects than as actual characters. And though it's not a requirement, some of my favorite TMNT stories also happen to have good portrayals of women (whether as allies or antagonists), including The Alien Agenda, Blind Sight, City at War (Mirage), Darkness Weaves, Karai's Vendetta, Mutant Ninja Turtles Gaiden, Swan Song and True Stories. Dark Shadows and White Horses also have good portrayals of women, though I thought their stories were so-so.

      What does "Artemisia" evoke? The goddess Artemis. A huntress. A capable warrior with a bow and arrow. She's neither an object nor sexless, but a balanced portrayal of a teenage girl who can also handle herself in a crisis. And no one's treating her like an object or constantly trying to hit on her. Same goes for that story's version of Alopex.

      Okay I understand that she was poorly handled during the 90s and such but that doesn't mean they should be excluded from the franchise because of it. Also just because they are named after a god or goddess, it doesn't mean they have live up to that name. They probably thought it was cool like most of the 90s was like the "Mummies Alive" cartoon for example, giving them vehicles, weapons, etc. They probably just named her that because they thought it was cool, I assume.

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    • Gilgameshkun
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      Withdrawing.
      18:31, October 22, 2017
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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      It could be that I was brought up with an exposure to the arts, education and literature, but even as a teenager (when The Next Mutation aired) I knew what the Venus de Milo was. And Venus/Aphrodite has strong traditional female sexual connotations. "Venereal". "Aphrodisiac". It would be like naming a male character "Bacchus" or "Eros" and then objectifying him as fanservice. The reference is too blatant, so he'd be a joke—difficult to take seriously, let alone dignifyingly.

      Okay, you may have known that but they probably didn't back then. The 90's was a place where things were taking out of context and literal. So you couldn't expect them to be perfect back then, nobody was. So nothing was really taken seriously back then.

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    • Gilgameshkun
      Gilgameshkun removed this reply because:
      Withdrawing.
      18:31, October 22, 2017
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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Some TMNT back then was stuff you could take seriously. Not that ridiculous 80s cartoon or The Next Mutation, but Mirage was putting out some very good stuff for adult readers.

      Anyway, even if some people might have possibly been ignorant of the connotations of "Venus" back then (which I really doubt), that's less difficult now, what with every word being a Google search away. "Venus de Milo" is and always was a bad idea for a character. If you're going to design a female turtle, give her a more balanced name. If not "Artemisia", then maybe something else dignifying or empowering, like "Persephone" (mythological queen underground) or "Murasaki" (an ancient novelist). Like Artemis, these are names of figures known for their roles and abilities, and not just for being the pinup models of antiquity.

      The 90's is about the same to me, just more modern at that time. 

      Yes, I am aware of that. I even mention that there was a petition to keep her off TV, movies and video games which is a total waste of time. Also that's why I mentioned that she should be rewritten and rebooted, that way she can be more approachable and a little more likeable. 

      And with people turning everything sexual for fantasies, I get that but that tends to happen to everything anyways. So you have to realize that their are people doing it for fun. The point is to not take it seriously.

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    • Gilgameshkun
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      Withdrawing.
      18:31, October 22, 2017
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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      I'm familiar with Rule 34. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about something designed for sex or as a sex joke. I mean, she even had a "V" on her belt right above her V. Design a female turtle, fine. But don't name her "Venus de Milo." Ever.

      I think that might be taking out of context from what you're telling me. It's like saying "D" on Donatello's belt means a males genital. I mean if that's what you think that's fine but this kinda falls in to what I said about "Not taking it seriously". If it's intended as a sex joke from writers and desingers, fine but nobody really cares about it. Once the joke is out, it's out.

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    • Gilgameshkun
      Gilgameshkun removed this reply because:
      Withdrawing.
      18:31, October 22, 2017
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    • Gilgameshkun
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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Actually, the fact that her name is "Venus" draws more attention to that. "Venus" is already a rather sexualized reference to begin with. "Donatello" is not.

      Like I said before, just because it was named after a god or goddess doesn't mean they have to live up to the name. I was just saying that as an example of what you said about her belt.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      This discussion is going in circles.

      I guess so

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    • Master DA wrote:
      Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Actually, the fact that her name is "Venus" draws more attention to that. "Venus" is already a rather sexualized reference to begin with. "Donatello" is not.
      Like I said before, just because it was named after a god or goddess doesn't mean they have to live up to the name. I was just saying that as an example of what you said about her belt.

      Did you know, the names of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are not reflective of the personalities of the artists they are named after.

      Leonardo da Vinchi was the only of the 4 who was known as much for inventions as art. Donatello was arguably the leader, or certainly the initiator, of the 'Italian Renaissance' movement. Raphael was a "social butterfly." He was a fun-loving, hard-partying, and amiable guy who was said to have had many, many lovers. He may have even died of an STD. According to theory, Michelangelo had an introverted, temperamental, and brooding personality. Thus, if the male turtles don't live up to their names, then why should Venus. Plus, Venus de Milo was a nickname. Her real name was Mei Pei Chi, and this wiki has the translations of those names, and they are either empowering or statements of fact.

      Plus, if Bayonetta has taught me anything, female sexiness can be very empowering. Venus de Milo can have that name and still be an empowered female character, she just hasn't had that in the past. I think that that is why she needs a revival. I think she is a good idea that everyone hates because of botched execution. And there are plenty of other examples of that in TMNT history.

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    • Just as an example, here is a story i conceptualized for a 2012 show style introduction of Venus, and the story surrounding her. She was the turtle's sister from the pet store that Hamato Yoshi did not buy. Instead, she was bought by Dr. Perri Grey (from the archie comics), a veteranarian who gave her the name Venus de Milo. The turtles descover this and decide to have a family reunion of sorts, when Donatello gets an alert that Hun and the Purple Dragons are highjacking an armored car filled with Mutagen, and by sheer coincidence the car's rout will take it pass Dr. Grey's house. She takes Venus with her to observe from the shadows. The turtles battle Hun and his goons, knocking him into the cargo the Dragon's were atempting to steal, sending mutagen canisters everywhere (this accident also happend to mutate Hun into a turtle, but that's not important), including over Dr. Grey (who mutates into a Flying Squirrel she was caring for in her clinic) which causes her to drop Venus into the sewers, mutagen following. The Dragon's drive the unconsious mutant Hun away, the turtles tend to Perri Grey, and Venus mutates into humanoid form in the sewers, thinking that her "mother" was killed in the accident, and blaming the turtles for it (Like what happened to Slash, the mutagen messed with her mind). The episode ends with John Kommodus, CEO of Go-Kommodo Sports Manufacturing, and self-proclaimed Dragon Lord, is informed by one of his Rank that his mutagen was hijacked and that the entire payload was lost, including the "Special" cannister. We then cut to Venus in the sewers again, where she begins to glow with chi energy.

      In the next episode of this mini-series, the Turtles begin looking for Venus in the sewers, but the Dragon Lord is also looking for her and the mutagen she "stole", sending his mutant Komodo Dragon brother, King Komodo, into the sewers to find her. But Venus is no longer in the sewers, she has been found by Chung I, a tai chi instructor. He has taken her in and promised to train her in his arts, both so she can channel her newfound Chi powers, and control her desire for vengence. Sense she dose not remember her old name, he gives her the name Mei Pei Chi (meaning Beautiful Turtle Mind). After learning decent control of her power, she becomes frustrated with Chung for attempting to quell her nead for revenge and goes into the seweres to look for the turtles. They meet and fight, the Turtles realize Venus's chi powers are too dangerous and bait her back to the lair where Dr. Grey is, waiting for Donnie's retromutagen to finish brewing. When she gets there Venus recognizes her "mother's" voice and tearfully reunites, becoming receptive to the turtle's explained backtory. The Dragon Lord has bean observing these events however and seeing how powerful Venus has become, he comes up with a new stratagey. The lights in the turtle's lair go out, King Komodo's roar is heard, and when the lights come up, the four male turtles and Dr. Grey are gone.

      In the final of these episodes, Venus returns to Chung I to apologize and ask for help. She has received a telepathic messags from the Dragon Lord, ransoming her brothers and mother. Chung I tells her of the legend of the Dragons, who long ago held dominion over china, before a band of warriors hunted them to extinction. Before the final Dragon was killed, he emparted his essence into a pregnant village woman, causing her son to be born with Dragon esque featurs and powers. He laid waste to China, rulling with an iron fist. But as the generations moved on, and his Dragon bloodline was diluted with human DNA, his descendants lost power and were eventually overthown. Chung suspects John Kommodus to be the laest in this bloodline, and after hearing a description of the effects of Mutagen, they deduce that he wants to use a canister of ooze, enchanted with the essence of the dragon, to gain the power of his Dragon ancestors, and that canister was the one that Venus had been doused with. Venus invades the Dragon Lords stronghold, fighting Rank soldiers all the way, and finds the turtles and Dr. Grey attached to machinery. John Komodus explains that he no longer needs the mutagen in her blood, just the dragon magic she "stole". When questioned as to why, he siphons the mutagen from Perri Grey, returning her to human form, and causing John to become a humanoid dragon man, he intends to also drain the mutagen from the turtles. The two fight, and Venus exentually triumphs, using the retro-mutagen from donnie's lab to revert him to human and handing him an his Rank soldiers over to the police. Venus makes peice with her brothers, but tells them that she can't stay with them. She needs to forge her own path in life. So she has decided to go with Chung I to China to continue training. She says goodby to her family and walks off into the sunset.

      How's that for a storyline.

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    • Amazoman wrote:
      Master DA wrote:
      Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Actually, the fact that her name is "Venus" draws more attention to that. "Venus" is already a rather sexualized reference to begin with. "Donatello" is not.
      Like I said before, just because it was named after a god or goddess doesn't mean they have to live up to the name. I was just saying that as an example of what you said about her belt.
      Did you know, the names of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are not reflective of the personalities of the artists they are named after.

      Leonardo da Vinchi was the only of the 4 who was known as much for inventions as art. Donatello was arguably the leader, or certainly the initiator, of the 'Italian Renaissance' movement. Raphael was a "social butterfly." He was a fun-loving, hard-partying, and amiable guy who was said to have had many, many lovers. He may have even died of an STD. According to theory, Michelangelo had an introverted, temperamental, and brooding personality. Thus, if the male turtles don't live up to their names, then why should Venus. Plus, Venus de Milo was a nickname. Her real name was Mei Pei Chi, and this wiki has the translations of those names, and they are either empowering or statements of fact.

      Plus, if Bayonetta has taught me anything, female sexiness can be very empowering. Venus de Milo can have that name and still be an empowered female character, she just hasn't had that in the past. I think that that is why she needs a revival. I think she is a good idea that everyone hates because of botched execution. And there are plenty of other examples of that in TMNT history.

      That's exactly my point. Yes I know she had different names and her real name is Mei Pei Chi but just because she had a bad past that doesn't mean she should have a bad future.

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    • Amazoman wrote:
      Just as an example, here is a story i conceptualized for a 2012 show style introduction of Venus, and the story surrounding her. She was the turtle's sister from the pet store that Hamato Yoshi did not buy. Instead, she was bought by Dr. Perri Grey (from the archie comics), a veteranarian who gave her the name Venus de Milo. The turtles descover this and decide to have a family reunion of sorts, when Donatello gets an alert that Hun and the Purple Dragons are highjacking an armored car filled with Mutagen, and by sheer coincidence the car's rout will take it pass Dr. Grey's house. She takes Venus with her to observe from the shadows. The turtles battle Hun and his goons, knocking him into the cargo the Dragon's were atempting to steal, sending mutagen canisters everywhere (this accident also happend to mutate Hun into a turtle, but that's not important), including over Dr. Grey (who mutates into a Flying Squirrel she was caring for in her clinic) which causes her to drop Venus into the sewers, mutagen following. The Dragon's drive the unconsious mutant Hun away, the turtles tend to Perri Grey, and Venus mutates into humanoid form in the sewers, thinking that her "mother" was killed in the accident, and blaming the turtles for it (Like what happened to Slash, the mutagen messed with her mind). The episode ends with John Kommodus, CEO of Go-Kommodo Sports Manufacturing, and self-proclaimed Dragon Lord, is informed by one of his Rank that his mutagen was hijacked and that the entire payload was lost, including the "Special" cannister. We then cut to Venus in the sewers again, where she begins to glow with chi energy.

      In the next episode of this mini-series, the Turtles begin looking for Venus in the sewers, but the Dragon Lord is also looking for her and the mutagen she "stole", sending his mutant Komodo Dragon brother, King Komodo, into the sewers to find her. But Venus is no longer in the sewers, she has been found by Chung I, a tai chi instructor. He has taken her in and promised to train her in his arts, both so she can channel her newfound Chi powers, and control her desire for vengence. Sense she dose not remember her old name, he gives her the name Mei Pei Chi (meaning Beautiful Turtle Mind). After learning decent control of her power, she becomes frustrated with Chung for attempting to quell her nead for revenge and goes into the seweres to look for the turtles. They meet and fight, the Turtles realize Venus's chi powers are too dangerous and bait her back to the lair where Dr. Grey is, waiting for Donnie's retromutagen to finish brewing. When she gets there Venus recognizes her "mother's" voice and tearfully reunites, becoming receptive to the turtle's explained backtory. The Dragon Lord has bean observing these events however and seeing how powerful Venus has become, he comes up with a new stratagey. The lights in the turtle's lair go out, King Komodo's roar is heard, and when the lights come up, the four male turtles and Dr. Grey are gone.

      In the final of these episodes, Venus returns to Chung I to apologize and ask for help. She has received a telepathic messags from the Dragon Lord, ransoming her brothers and mother. Chung I tells her of the legend of the Dragons, who long ago held dominion over china, before a band of warriors hunted them to extinction. Before the final Dragon was killed, he emparted his essence into a pregnant village woman, causing her son to be born with Dragon esque featurs and powers. He laid waste to China, rulling with an iron fist. But as the generations moved on, and his Dragon bloodline was diluted with human DNA, his descendants lost power and were eventually overthown. Chung suspects John Kommodus to be the laest in this bloodline, and after hearing a description of the effects of Mutagen, they deduce that he wants to use a canister of ooze, enchanted with the essence of the dragon, to gain the power of his Dragon ancestors, and that canister was the one that Venus had been doused with. Venus invades the Dragon Lords stronghold, fighting Rank soldiers all the way, and finds the turtles and Dr. Grey attached to machinery. John Komodus explains that he no longer needs the mutagen in her blood, just the dragon magic she "stole". When questioned as to why, he siphons the mutagen from Perri Grey, returning her to human form, and causing John to become a humanoid dragon man, he intends to also drain the mutagen from the turtles. The two fight, and Venus exentually triumphs, using the retro-mutagen from donnie's lab to revert him to human and handing him an his Rank soldiers over to the police. Venus makes peice with her brothers, but tells them that she can't stay with them. She needs to forge her own path in life. So she has decided to go with Chung I to China to continue training. She says goodby to her family and walks off into the sunset.

      How's that for a storyline.

      Pretty good. I had a similar idea to that with a fan made third sequel to the live TMNT Movies.

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    • Master DA wrote:
      (If you're too inmature then don't answer. I will not answer to childish remarks and please be respectable with good criticism when or if you answer. All opinions are welcomed just be thoughtful about it and this is my opinion so don't get your panties in a twist.)I know what you are thinking right now when you saw this title. You're thinking she should stay dead and never reappear on T.V. or any movies. Now I know she wasn't recieved well because of her bad puns, terrible jokes and too many references for her character but by now I think her hatred have taken a bit too far now. For gods sake there's a petition to keep her off T.V. which is a complete waste of time and jus flat out stupid. I have no problem of adding female members to teams like this like April and Kirai (Sometimes Mona Lisa) but people wouldn't give her a chance now because of the things that happened during her appearances.

      I think she deserves a second chance because this hatred has gone long enough now plus it could go better if she was rewritten and redeveloped she would at least be more approachable. Then she would have a better chance of coming back to the screens. The TMNT 2012 show is out because she already made her cameo in there but the Michael Bay TMNT Movies might make it possible so why not; same goes for Mona Lisa.

      All I'm saying is let's be a little bit more open minded about her because I know she can be redeemed and hopefully make her a better character.

      I'd imagine that Venus is found the same way as the Turtles, but in a different environment. She should also have allies of her own; a caretaker and a scientist like April and Donnie, a martial arts teacher like Leo, and a street vigilante like Raph and Casey.

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    • Desireepurnellsandi wrote:
      Master DA wrote:
      (If you're too inmature then don't answer. I will not answer to childish remarks and please be respectable with good criticism when or if you answer. All opinions are welcomed just be thoughtful about it and this is my opinion so don't get your panties in a twist.)I know what you are thinking right now when you saw this title. You're thinking she should stay dead and never reappear on T.V. or any movies. Now I know she wasn't recieved well because of her bad puns, terrible jokes and too many references for her character but by now I think her hatred have taken a bit too far now. For gods sake there's a petition to keep her off T.V. which is a complete waste of time and jus flat out stupid. I have no problem of adding female members to teams like this like April and Kirai (Sometimes Mona Lisa) but people wouldn't give her a chance now because of the things that happened during her appearances.

      I think she deserves a second chance because this hatred has gone long enough now plus it could go better if she was rewritten and redeveloped she would at least be more approachable. Then she would have a better chance of coming back to the screens. The TMNT 2012 show is out because she already made her cameo in there but the Michael Bay TMNT Movies might make it possible so why not; same goes for Mona Lisa.

      All I'm saying is let's be a little bit more open minded about her because I know she can be redeemed and hopefully make her a better character.

      I'd imagine that Venus is found the same way as the Turtles, but in a different environment. She should also have aliies of her own; a caretaker and a scientist like April and Donnie, a martial arts teacher like Leo, and a street vigilante like Raph and Casey.

      Yes I thought she would also. Would be very interesting to have her own caretakers.

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    • Master DA wrote:
      (If you're too inmature then don't answer. I will not answer to childish remarks and please be respectable with good criticism when or if you answer. All opinions are welcomed just be thoughtful about it and this is my opinion so don't get your panties in a twist.)

      I know what you are thinking right now when you saw this title. You're thinking she should stay dead and never reappear on T.V. or any movies. Now I know she wasn't recieved well because of her bad puns, terrible jokes and too many references for her character but by now I think her hatred have taken a bit too far now. For gods sake there's a petition to keep her off T.V. which is a complete waste of time and jus flat out stupid. I have no problem of adding female members to teams like this like April and Kirai (Sometimes Mona Lisa) but people wouldn't give her a chance now because of the things that happened during her appearances.

      I think she deserves a second chance because this hatred has gone long enough now plus it could go better if she was rewritten and redeveloped she would at least be more approachable. Then she would have a better chance of coming back to the screens. The TMNT 2012 show is out because she already made her cameo in there but the Michael Bay TMNT Movies might make it possible so why not; same goes for Mona Lisa.

      All I'm saying is let's be a little bit more open minded about her because I know she can be redeemed and hopefully make her a better character.

      Honestly, I've never watched The Next Mutation (neither the anime nor the Christmas special of the 90s) and I've heard so many indictments for her,but... this-this broke my heart:

      Born A Stranger

      Born a stranger

      by Momo-no-Ji

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    • Angel Bridge wrote:
      Master DA wrote:
      (If you're too inmature then don't answer. I will not answer to childish remarks and please be respectable with good criticism when or if you answer. All opinions are welcomed just be thoughtful about it and this is my opinion so don't get your panties in a twist.)I know what you are thinking right now when you saw this title. You're thinking she should stay dead and never reappear on T.V. or any movies. Now I know she wasn't recieved well because of her bad puns, terrible jokes and too many references for her character but by now I think her hatred have taken a bit too far now. For gods sake there's a petition to keep her off T.V. which is a complete waste of time and jus flat out stupid. I have no problem of adding female members to teams like this like April and Kirai (Sometimes Mona Lisa) but people wouldn't give her a chance now because of the things that happened during her appearances.

      I think she deserves a second chance because this hatred has gone long enough now plus it could go better if she was rewritten and redeveloped she would at least be more approachable. Then she would have a better chance of coming back to the screens. The TMNT 2012 show is out because she already made her cameo in there but the Michael Bay TMNT Movies might make it possible so why not; same goes for Mona Lisa.

      All I'm saying is let's be a little bit more open minded about her because I know she can be redeemed and hopefully make her a better character.

      Honestly, I've never watched The Next Mutation (neither the anime nor the Christmas special of the 90s) and I've heard so many indictments for her,but... this-this broke my heart:
      Born A Stranger

      Born a stranger

      by Momo-no-Ji

      It's because people don't respect her just because how she was handled back in the 90's. 

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    • Gilgameshkun
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    • Gilgameshkun wrote: The problem is, Venus may be very difficult to rehabilitate for a long time to come. Even when the 2012 TV series referenced her, how did they do it? As a pinup figure painted on the side of a van. To remind audiences, once again, that this is her primary reason for existence, and turn what had been one bad portrayal into a recurring pattern. It's not simply enough to reboot her—one has to completely and successfully reverse the reputation she has accumulated. She has to be a well-rounded character and completely divorced from the legacy of her character design.

      Thing is, a design like Artemisia already fits that bill nicely, and she has none of Venus's baggage, and doesn't have the name that conjures all the wrong associations in the TMNT mythos. But take a character like Artemisia and rename her "Venus," and suddenly every mention of her name becomes its own unhelpful disruption, making it all the harder to take her seriously or change what audiences expect from her. Because it was never that Venus is a woman that makes her a bad idea. It's that she's always been one of the most sexist, unflattering ways to portray a woman that makes her a bad idea. It would take nothing short of an ingenious miracle to overcome this obstacle in any reboot of her character template.

      You do know most of the fanbase is gonna be that anyways. It wont matter as long as they don't take it too far.

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    • Gilgameshkun
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      Withdrawing. Also, I'd like my comments quoted by other users to be removed, please. This discussion is utter poison.
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    • Master DA wrote:
      Angel Bridge wrote:
      Master DA wrote:
      (If you're too inmature then don't answer. I will not answer to childish remarks and please be respectable with good criticism when or if you answer. All opinions are welcomed just be thoughtful about it and this is my opinion so don't get your panties in a twist.)I know what you are thinking right now when you saw this title. You're thinking she should stay dead and never reappear on T.V. or any movies. Now I know she wasn't recieved well because of her bad puns, terrible jokes and too many references for her character but by now I think her hatred have taken a bit too far now. For gods sake there's a petition to keep her off T.V. which is a complete waste of time and jus flat out stupid. I have no problem of adding female members to teams like this like April and Kirai (Sometimes Mona Lisa) but people wouldn't give her a chance now because of the things that happened during her appearances.

      I think she deserves a second chance because this hatred has gone long enough now plus it could go better if she was rewritten and redeveloped she would at least be more approachable. Then she would have a better chance of coming back to the screens. The TMNT 2012 show is out because she already made her cameo in there but the Michael Bay TMNT Movies might make it possible so why not; same goes for Mona Lisa.

      All I'm saying is let's be a little bit more open minded about her because I know she can be redeemed and hopefully make her a better character.

      Honestly, I've never watched The Next Mutation (neither the anime nor the Christmas special of the 90s) and I've heard so many indictments for her,but... this-this broke my heart:
      Born A Stranger

      Born a stranger

      by Momo-no-Ji

      It's because people don't respect her just because how she was handled back in the 90's. 

      I don't think so, but I agree with the last thing you said.

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    • Angel Bridge wrote:
      Master DA wrote:
      Angel Bridge wrote:
      Master DA wrote:
      (If you're too inmature then don't answer. I will not answer to childish remarks and please be respectable with good criticism when or if you answer. All opinions are welcomed just be thoughtful about it and this is my opinion so don't get your panties in a twist.)I know what you are thinking right now when you saw this title. You're thinking she should stay dead and never reappear on T.V. or any movies. Now I know she wasn't recieved well because of her bad puns, terrible jokes and too many references for her character but by now I think her hatred have taken a bit too far now. For gods sake there's a petition to keep her off T.V. which is a complete waste of time and jus flat out stupid. I have no problem of adding female members to teams like this like April and Kirai (Sometimes Mona Lisa) but people wouldn't give her a chance now because of the things that happened during her appearances.

      I think she deserves a second chance because this hatred has gone long enough now plus it could go better if she was rewritten and redeveloped she would at least be more approachable. Then she would have a better chance of coming back to the screens. The TMNT 2012 show is out because she already made her cameo in there but the Michael Bay TMNT Movies might make it possible so why not; same goes for Mona Lisa.

      All I'm saying is let's be a little bit more open minded about her because I know she can be redeemed and hopefully make her a better character.

      Honestly, I've never watched The Next Mutation (neither the anime nor the Christmas special of the 90s) and I've heard so many indictments for her,but... this-this broke my heart:
      Born A Stranger

      Born a stranger

      by Momo-no-Ji

      It's because people don't respect her just because how she was handled back in the 90's. 
      I don't think so, but I agree with the last thing you said.


      Exactly but I just don't think people should still hold this grudge because of it. 

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    • Morty340 wrote:
      Oh, I want Venus back, too! Me and my brother!

      Same here!

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    • Give Venus De Milo a K-Pop vibe!!!! Or even a J-Pop vibe!!!!!

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    • Bmwfan2015 wrote:
      Give Venus De Milo a K-Pop vibe!!!! Or even a J-Pop vibe!!!!!

      Hm...J-pop vibe could be cool. Care to elaborate?

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    • Wingnut II wrote:
      Bmwfan2015 wrote:
      Give Venus De Milo a K-Pop vibe!!!! Or even a J-Pop vibe!!!!!
      Hm...J-pop vibe could be cool. Care to elaborate?

      Well she can be a turtle who traveled to various areas of Asia.

      She would be trained by mystics and several martial arts. Sometimes, she'll go to the modern cities to explore their cultures.

      From K-Pop groups, she would obtain their...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTtsMYNXlL8

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    • Bmwfan2015 wrote:
      Wingnut II wrote:
      Bmwfan2015 wrote:
      Give Venus De Milo a K-Pop vibe!!!! Or even a J-Pop vibe!!!!!
      Hm...J-pop vibe could be cool. Care to elaborate?
      Well she can be a turtle who traveled to various areas of Asia.

      She would be trained by mystics and several martial arts. Sometimes, she'll go to the modern cities to explore their cultures.

      From K-Pop groups, she would obtain their...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTtsMYNXlL8

      Ah. Good to know.

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    • My personal take on it is that she shouldn't, for two reasons:

      1. The whole backstory reminds me of bad fanfic. It really does make me cringe.

      2. The name and what it implies. Leonardo, Donatello, Raphael and Michelangelo are the names of great men who contributed greatly to art and culture. Venus de Milo... was not an artist of any kind, or even a person. It is a thing. An object. Having the only female character be named after a literal object, while the males are all given "people" names, has some very bad connotations.

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    • Easol1 wrote:
      My personal take on it is that she shouldn't, for two reasons:

      1. The whole backstory reminds me of bad fanfic. It really does make me cringe.

      2. The name and what it implies. Leonardo, Donatello, Raphael and Michelangelo are the names of great men who contributed greatly to art and culture. Venus de Milo... was not an artist of any kind, or even a person. It is a thing. An object. Having the only female character be named after a literal object, while the males are all given "people" names, has some very bad connotations.

      I can respect your opinions but I like to add my piece if you don't mind.

      1. Don't blame the stories. Blame the writers. 

      2. Just because their names are named after artists and inventors that doesn't mean it defines them. Michelangelo in real life is Italian Sculptor but TMNT Mikey, he's not making statues. So none of these names are defining them and they're not living up or looking up to them. Venus De Milo aka Mei Pei Chi doesn't define her in anything, so their names don't really define anything. It's like naming your truck Bessie because it was given personality. 

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    • Easol1: This is what I would call a "rabbit hole" topic—one that deeply polarizes opinion and inflames too many opposing passions in ways rarely seen outside politics. There is no debate point that will satisfy your debate opponent, no possible resolution to an argument, just...a black hole of fraught disagreement that will try to consume all your time and energy. Run away, run far away, and don't look back.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Easol1: This is what I would call a "rabbit hole" topic—one that deeply polarizes opinion and inflames too many opposing passions in ways rarely seen outside politics. There is no debate point that will satisfy your debate opponent, no possible resolution to an argument, just...a black hole of fraught disagreement that will try to consume all your time and energy. Run away, run far away, and don't look back.

      First of all, I said that all opinions are welcomed with good criticism. None of the "Cancerous" talk, I stand with my opinions whether you agree or disagree but I never said it was invalid nor was yours. You stand by your opinion and I stand with mine. So it's you that needs to stop making my conversations look bad just because of our disagreement. 

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    • If the discussion looks bad, it's not necessarily because it needed my help. As long as the discussion solicits random user input over such a terminally polarizing topic, the result is going to be very predictably acrimonious, with people ending up using a lot of time and energy to say what amounts to very little. And that's because this is not a topic of rational discussion—it's a topic that hinges on whether the commenter likes or dislikes the character. And when a character is as strongly liked by some and strongly disliked by others as this one, then a thread like this functions primarily as either an echo chamber (if everyone happens to agree) or as flame bait (if anyone disagrees), whether or not it was actually intended as either.

      If you want to gauge fan opinion, you might be better served setting up some kind of poll. And if you want to declare an unsolicited opinion of your own without an existing topic asking for it, there are better ways to do it, such as in writing as a statement on your user page or in a personal blog entry. But with this thread, you solicit debate over what amounts to a fan preference, to which there really can be no detached rational argument for or against.

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    • Wow. It's the "Mutant Apocalypse" Forum all over agin. A simple debate turned into a huge arguement that's been going for 2 years now. I'm not gonna get too involved in this, (especially since I've never wathced "TMNT: The Next Mutation") but I say if they can handle Venus's personality just right to where she has some spotlight, but doesn't completely steal it, I'm fine if she returns. On the other hand, if she doesn't, we've already got April as the leading lady, and Karai was a strong ally for the Turtles in the 2012 series, so I'm cool if she doesn't appear.

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    • Master DA wrote: I think she deserves a second chance because this hatred has gone long enough now plus it could do better if she was rewritten and redeveloped she would at least be more approachable.

      All I'm saying is let's be a little bit more open-minded about her because I know she can be redeemed and hopefully make her a better character.

      I couldn’t agree more. I mean, many characters gone through the “same name, different person” trope (ie. 2012 Tokka and Mona). Why can’t the same go for Venus? You can take the name and physical characteristics of Venus but give her a completely different personality.

      Personality, I believe that people hated her for so long (20+ years) that they forgot why they hated her in the first place, but are so ignorant to remember why. It can happen. That or they’re completely sexist and don’t want a female turtle at all. That’s literally the lamest excuse to hate Venus because “she’s female”. Rude.

      I think she deserves a reset. In other words, starting her character over from scratch and give her the proper respect she deserves. The writers on TNM did not treat her very well. But with the right people and with proper writing, she can be given the proper respect she needs.

      She needs a second chance, but she also needs to be fixed up and changed. Don’t bring back her previous incarnation’s personality and powers. Make her a more grounded character, and make her a sister too. Don’t make them not related to each other so there can be romance. Had enough of that. Plus, it would also be fun to give the turtles a sister. She can be the middle child (younger than Leo and Raph, but older than Donnie and Mikey) and the only girl of the turtles, and because of that, she’s less prone to cave in her brothers’ mischievous antics unlike Leo (and because girls mature faster than boys). She can also be the tiebreaker of the group, such as when her brothers (particularly Leo and Raph) argue over something, she can break them up and try her best to keep them from fighting each other and tells reasonable explanations to them. She can be the most compassionate and trustworthy member of the group aside from Splinter, such as when one of her brothers have a secret and need someone to share it with, they tell her. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t tease them every now and then like real siblings do. Since she’s older than Donnie and Mikey, she can tease them the most and call them “little brother” or “little bro” (which annoys Donnie). She can also be slightly taller than her brothers (except Donnie, who can be taller than her), since female turtles are bigger than males. Her primary weapons can be tongas (weapons that Mikey used in TNM and that Raph will use in Rise of the TMNT), which can upgrade to kunais. Unlike TNM, she is very intrigued with New York culture and wants to learn more about it, but unlike Mikey doesn’t jump in to find out what New York has to offer. She can also be April’s BFF, and have friendly bickering with Casey, similar to Cassandra’s relationship with Rapunzal and Eugene with Tangled: The Series. Overall, I’d like Venus to be a sassy, “tough-as-nails”, bold person, but also clever, caring, patient and cunning.

      So yeah, that’s just how I feel she can be interpreted.

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    • SarahSpyborg259 wrote:

      Master DA wrote: I think she deserves a second chance because this hatred has gone long enough now plus it could do better if she was rewritten and redeveloped she would at least be more approachable.

      All I'm saying is let's be a little bit more open-minded about her because I know she can be redeemed and hopefully make her a better character.

      I couldn’t agree more. I mean, many characters gone through the “same name, different person” trope (ie. 2012 Tokka and Mona). Why can’t the same go for Venus? You can take the name and physical characteristics of Venus but give her a completely different personality.

      Personality, I believe that people hated her for so long (20+ years) that they forgot why they hated her in the first place, but are so ignorant to remember why. It can happen. That or they’re completely sexist and don’t want a female turtle at all. That’s literally the lamest excuse to hate Venus because “she’s female”. Rude.

      I think she deserves a reset. In other words, starting her character over from scratch and give her the proper respect she deserves. The writers on TNM did not treat her very well. But with the right people and with proper writing, she can be given the proper respect she needs.

      She needs a second chance, but she also needs to be fixed up and changed. Don’t bring back her previous incarnation’s personality and powers. Make her a more grounded character, and make her a sister too. Don’t make them not related to each other so there can be romance. Had enough of that. Plus, it would also be fun to give the turtles a sister. She can be the middle child (younger than Leo and Raph, but older than Donnie and Mikey) and the only girl of the turtles, and because of that, she’s less prone to cave in her brothers’ mischievous antics unlike Leo (and because girls mature faster than boys). She can also be the tiebreaker of the group, such as when her brothers (particularly Leo and Raph) argue over something, she can break them up and try her best to keep them from fighting each other and tells reasonable explanations to them. She can be the most compassionate and trustworthy member of the group aside from Splinter, such as when one of her brothers have a secret and need someone to share it with, they tell her. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t tease them every now and then like real siblings do. Since she’s older than Donnie and Mikey, she can tease them the most and call them “little brother” or “little bro” (which annoys Donnie). She can also be slightly taller than her brothers (except Donnie, who can be taller than her), since female turtles are bigger than males. Her primary weapons can be tongas (weapons that Mikey used in TNM and that Raph will use in Rise of the TMNT), which can upgrade to kunais. Unlike TNM, she is very intrigued with New York culture and wants to learn more about it, but unlike Mikey doesn’t jump in to find out what New York has to offer. She can also be April’s BFF, and have friendly bickering with Casey, similar to Cassandra’s relationship with Rapunzal and Eugene with Tangled: The Series. Overall, I’d like Venus to be a sassy, “tough-as-nails”, bold person, but also clever, caring, patient and cunning.

      So yeah, that’s just how I feel she can be interpreted.

      Wow, you literally just read my mind.

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    • If she was ever brought back, I’d like the writers to use this personality I’m throwing around. Wonder what flavour of pizza she’d like?

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    • Yeah, I would like that too. Maybe make her more admirable and even have an odd toppings for her pizza. 

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    • But what flavour? Hawaiian? BBQ Chicken? Jellybeans, anchovies, and jalapeños? Or maybe Asian themed, like sushi pizza.

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    • I think Jellybeans would make it cute or at least Hawaiian.

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    • Okay, I came up with a few quotes I think would be suitable for Venus.

      • “There’s our opening.”
      • “Stop it! Both of you!”
      • “Let’s see how much I ‘play’ with these.”
      • “Hey, little brother.”
      • “You took something, didn’t you Mikey?”
      • “Check this out, April.”
      • “They might be crazy, and they might get on my nerves. But they’re still my brothers. And I’ll fight alongside them until we pass. And hey, it doesn’t hurt to kick back with them. They can be fun too.”
      • “Count me in!”
      • “You don’t mess with a girl like me.”
      • “I do more than taking a backseat, okay?”
      • “*sighs* boys...”
      • “Leo’s not the only one who meditates.”
      • “I've got a bad feeling about this.”
      • “They’re not just tongas. They’re tessens too.”
      • “Isn’t ‘shinobi’ another word for ninja? Ask Donnie about that.”
      • “Never underestimate the lady.
      • “Do you have any idea how crazy this is, Raph?!”
      • “Woo! Pizza!”
      • “Enough, you two.”
      • “Roger that.”


      And also, since she grew up with people opposite her gender, she’s a bit of a tomboy.

      And I changed her upgrade from kunai to tessens.

      And I’m thinking Linda Cardellini could voice her.

        Loading editor
    • Good news! In this interview with Kevin Eastman from two years ago, he states that he actually likes Venus as a character and hopes she can make a comeback.

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    • SarahSpyborg259 wrote:
      Okay, I came up with a few quotes I think would be suitable for Venus.
      • “There’s our opening.”
      • “Stop it! Both of you!”
      • “Let’s see how much I ‘play’ with these.”
      • “Hey, little brother.”
      • “You took something, didn’t you Mikey?”
      • “Check this out, April.”
      • “They might be crazy, and they might get on my nerves. But they’re still my brothers. And I’ll fight alongside them until we pass. And hey, it doesn’t hurt to kick back with them. They can be fun too.”
      • “Count me in!”
      • “You don’t mess with a girl like me.”
      • “I do more than taking a backseat, okay?”
      • “*sighs* boys...”
      • “Leo’s not the only one who meditates.”
      • “I've got a bad feeling about this.”
      • “They’re not just tongas. They’re tessens too.”
      • “Isn’t ‘shinobi’ another word for ninja? Ask Donnie about that.”
      • “Never underestimate the lady.
      • “Do you have any idea how crazy this is, Raph?!”
      • “Woo! Pizza!”
      • “Enough, you two.”
      • “Roger that.”


      And also, since she grew up with people opposite her gender, she’s a bit of a tomboy.

      And I changed her upgrade from kunai to tessens.

      And I’m thinking Linda Cardellini could voice her.

      This could work.

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    • After reading most of this ..Yes, i  think she should come back .I was skeptical before but now , i think it might work.If you are reading this thread  and don't know why i am writing this .. Well this seems to be dead so maybe my comment can revive it ? 

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    • DrScrubChan wrote: After reading most of this ..Yes, i  think she should come back .I was skeptical before but now , i think it might work.If you are reading this thread  and don't know why i am writing this .. Well this seems to be dead so maybe my comment can revive it ? 

      Yes as long as she gets a better development and writing, she could come back some day. Well not necessarily dead, just not active.

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    • Don’t worry, I updated her personality with a little help from my sister.

      Like Rapunzel from Tangled. Less naive, but close. Is very fascinated with human culture and wants to be a human teenage girl, and wants to be more on the feminine. Since she grew up in the sewers, she learns more about human culture through human trash. She would interpret some things right, but would misinterpret other things. She would be ecstatic when seeing a human for the first time. Mainly inspired by her glimpses of aesthetics of human subcultures, like punk, hippies, etc., thus she’s a mix. She meditates because it’s part of hippie culture.

      I also updated her voice actor as well; Kate Micucci.

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    • SarahSpyborg259 wrote:
      Don’t worry, I updated her personality with a little help from my sister.

      Like Rapunzel from Tangled. Less naive, but close. Is very fascinated with human culture and wants to be a human teenage girl, and wants to be more on the feminine. Since she grew up in the sewers, she learns more about human culture through human trash. She would interpret some things right, but would misinterpret other things. She would be ecstatic when seeing a human for the first time. Mainly inspired by her glimpses of aesthetics of human subcultures, like punk, hippies, etc., thus she’s a mix. She meditates because it’s part of hippie culture.

      I also updated her voice actor as well; Kate Micucci.

      Ugh....hippies...

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    • Btw, the reason i came here is because i really wanted a   5th  turtle since  rise of the tmnt  .The turtles are more similar to eachother then before  and there is no serious character to break the ice or change  the  show a bit . Splinter is lame and  stupid , Kasey jones isn't even in the show ( i don't think so anyway) ,April isn't the serious girl  anymore and it all just fell appart for me .

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    • DrScrubChan wrote: Btw, the reason i came here is because i really wanted a   5th  turtle since  rise of the tmnt  .The turtles are more similar to eachother then before  and there is no serious character to break the ice or change  the  show a bit . Splinter is lame and  stupid , Kasey jones isn't even in the show ( i don't think so anyway) ,April isn't the serious girl  anymore and it all just fell appart for me .

      I see your point.

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    • I feel like the creators of shows have to be confident in their decision and stay public about their plans regarding anything that might mean the comeback of older characters .A character is fake , it can be morphed and shaped in to anything so making Venus a good character shouldn't be hard, it's not like it has to transition to a good character since the universe is different . You take basic girl character , add the goofiness of Mikey  , seriousness of Leonardo , nerdiness or Donatello and the sarcasm of Raphael.Make her a friend character like April and Kasey Jones  and if the fans have a bad reaction then you can lengthen the time the character spends on each episode of the show   and then  make her disappear from said show in a way that it might have a impact and make for a good episode . If she is liked you can  slowly let her get in to the main team and hopefully she remains a 5th member , even in future  versions of tmnt.You get to know these original turtle  characters so well that after a while they get boring and predictable but it's hard to   change them to be different because then people would have a bad reaction to the change ...Venus  would be a hyped character  because of her older appearances ,the risk  would't be too high so you can  change the character as much you need to  , her impact could change a show  by breaking the ice and she would be  an older character but still feel fresh( by you i reffer  to what you could do if you where  working for the show .It's my way to avoid assuming the power that the creators have on the cartoon when it comes to  changing scripts  and more )

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    • It's inactive again .Quite sad  ...

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    • DrScrubChan wrote: It's inactive again .Quite sad  ...

      Well it's not gonna catch everyone with new posts going up all the time. I mean I have to wait for someone to reply messages here sometimes.

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    • Master DA wrote:

      DrScrubChan wrote: It's inactive again .Quite sad  ...

      Well it's not gonna catch everyone with new posts going up all the time. I mean I have to wait for someone to reply messages here sometimes.

      Ye true .

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    • DrScrubChan wrote:

      Master DA wrote:

      DrScrubChan wrote: It's inactive again .Quite sad  ...

      Well it's not gonna catch everyone with new posts going up all the time. I mean I have to wait for someone to reply messages here sometimes.

      Ye true .

      Yeah, so its good to be patient.

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    • Master DA, have you seen what I wrote about Venus’ updated personality?

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    • SarahSpyborg259 wrote: Master DA, have you seen what I wrote about Venus’ updated personality?

      I did and its very fasicnating idea you've given her.

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    • You can thank my sister for most of it.

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    • SarahSpyborg259 wrote: You can thank my sister for most of it.

      Tell her, I send my thanks.

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    • I totally agree! Venus definitely deserves a second chance. It would be really cool if she appears in the new tv series. I liked her and I believe that there should be other female lead characters besides April. I even drew a new version of her. In this case, she's a painted turtle. What do ya think?
      A5061BD6-2FC7-46E1-89C4-838174444017

      My version of Venus

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    • MIS99Dream wrote:

      I totally agree! Venus definitely deserves a second chance. It would be really cool if she appears in the new tv series. I liked her and I believe that there should be other female lead characters besides April. I even drew a new version of her. In this case, she's a painted turtle. What do ya think?
      A5061BD6-2FC7-46E1-89C4-838174444017

      My version of Venus

      Interesting concept!

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    • MIS99Dream wrote:
      I totally agree! Venus definitely deserves a second chance. It would be really cool if she appears in the new tv series. I liked her and I believe that there should be other female lead characters besides April. I even drew a new version of her. In this case, she's a painted turtle. What do ya think?
      A5061BD6-2FC7-46E1-89C4-838174444017

      My version of Venus

      Exactly, I hope she does too. It's very nice and would look good on the show.

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    • I feel like adding her into this series would work VERY well considering her formal "magic" abilities from her original series didnt really match the AU tmnt she was in. 

      Now it would be a perfect fit!! 

      I'd be crazy dissapointed (again) if she didn't show up at all or at least make a contemporary mark in the franchise again :(( 

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    • MIS99Dream wrote:
      I totally agree! Venus definitely deserves a second chance. It would be really cool if she appears in the new tv series. I liked her and I believe that there should be other female lead characters besides April. I even drew a new version of her. In this case, she's a painted turtle. What do ya think?
      A5061BD6-2FC7-46E1-89C4-838174444017

      My version of Venus

      Simple but effective style :) I love it!! I think it's also a clever way you placed the pendant that represents her character! The marks are super lovely too! Fantastic drawing :D 

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    • A FANDOM user
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