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  • (If you're too immature then don't answer. I will not answer to childish remarks and please be respectable with good criticism when or if you answer. All opinions are welcomed just be thoughtful about it and this is my opinion so don't get your panties in a twist. And if others do others answer, please respect each other's opinions. We don't want fights brewing here.)

    I know what you are thinking right now when you saw this title. You're thinking she should stay dead and never reappear on T.V. or any movies. Now I know she wasn't received well because of her bad puns, terrible jokes and too many references for her character but by now I think her hatred has taken a bit too far now. For god's sake, there's a petition to keep her off T.V. which is a complete waste of time and just flat out stupid. I have no problem of adding female members to teams like this like April and Kirai (Sometimes Mona Lisa) but people wouldn't give her a chance now because of the things that happened during her appearances.

    I think she deserves a second chance because this hatred has gone long enough now plus it could do better if she was rewritten and redeveloped she would at least be more approachable. Then she would have a better chance of coming back to the screens. The TMNT 2012 show is out because she already made her cameo in there but the Michael Bay TMNT Movies might make it possible so why not; same goes for Mona Lisa.

    All I'm saying is let's be a little bit more open-minded about her because I know she can be redeemed and hopefully make her a better character.

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    • Finally, someone who belives Venus should come back.

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    • Master DA
      Master DA removed this reply because:
      It was not able to pass on to the last message
      06:55, November 23, 2016
      This reply has been removed
    • Weekyle15 wrote:
      Finally, someone who belives Venus should come back.

      Exactly my friend. She's under appreciated and unlikable now.

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    • Oh, I want Venus back, too! Me and my brother!

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    • Morty340 wrote:
      Oh, I want Venus back, too! Me and my brother!

      I know right! I just think she deserves another chance.

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    • Gilgameshkun
      Gilgameshkun removed this reply because:
      Withdrawing.
      18:31, October 22, 2017
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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Venus De Milo was a lame idea to begin with. I think Sophie Campbell's Artemisia is done better.

      That's because it's a fan made character and only you think so because how badly Venus was handled. That's why I think she should have a reboot. Badly written characters always get rebooted.

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    • Gilgameshkun
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      Withdrawing.
      18:31, October 22, 2017
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    • Gilgameshkun wrote: Well, the problem is, whereas "Leonardo", "Donatello", etc. were names of artists, "Venus de Milo" was the name of specific naked statue of a goddess of love, beauty and sex, and naming a character that will evoke that mental image as a first impression. It aims too directly at the fantasies of horny fanboys, discouraging them from regarding her first and foremost as someone who could actually be a complex, dignified character. Might as well name her "Fujiko" or "Molotov @#$%tease" for all the good it does. The fact that the 90s Venus de Milo was fought over by two male main characters made it even worse.

      Furthermore, the use of Venus de Milo goes into the type of TMNT I really dislike—the kind that assumes it is primarily a story by hetero guys, for hetero guys, about hetero guys, with girls functioning more as props or objects than as actual characters. And though it's not a requirement, some of my favorite TMNT stories also happen to have good portrayals of women (whether as allies or antagonists), including The Alien Agenda, Blind Sight, City at War (Mirage), Darkness Weaves, Karai's Vendetta, Mutant Ninja Turtles Gaiden, Swan Song and True Stories. Dark Shadows and White Horses also have good portrayals of women, though I thought their stories were so-so.

      What does "Artemisia" evoke? The goddess Artemis. A huntress. A capable warrior with a bow and arrow. She's neither an object nor sexless, but a balanced portrayal of a teenage girl who can also handle herself in a crisis. And no one's treating her like an object or constantly trying to hit on her. Same goes for that story's version of Alopex.

      Okay I understand that she was poorly handled during the 90s and such but that doesn't mean they should be excluded from the franchise because of it. Also just because they are named after a god or goddess, it doesn't mean they have live up to that name. They probably thought it was cool like most of the 90s was like the "Mummies Alive" cartoon for example, giving them vehicles, weapons, etc. They probably just named her that because they thought it was cool, I assume.

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    • Gilgameshkun
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      Withdrawing.
      18:31, October 22, 2017
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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      It could be that I was brought up with an exposure to the arts, education and literature, but even as a teenager (when The Next Mutation aired) I knew what the Venus de Milo was. And Venus/Aphrodite has strong traditional female sexual connotations. "Venereal". "Aphrodisiac". It would be like naming a male character "Bacchus" or "Eros" and then objectifying him as fanservice. The reference is too blatant, so he'd be a joke—difficult to take seriously, let alone dignifyingly.

      Okay, you may have known that but they probably didn't back then. The 90's was a place where things were taking out of context and literal. So you couldn't expect them to be perfect back then, nobody was. So nothing was really taken seriously back then.

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    • Gilgameshkun
      Gilgameshkun removed this reply because:
      Withdrawing.
      18:31, October 22, 2017
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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Some TMNT back then was stuff you could take seriously. Not that ridiculous 80s cartoon or The Next Mutation, but Mirage was putting out some very good stuff for adult readers.

      Anyway, even if some people might have possibly been ignorant of the connotations of "Venus" back then (which I really doubt), that's less difficult now, what with every word being a Google search away. "Venus de Milo" is and always was a bad idea for a character. If you're going to design a female turtle, give her a more balanced name. If not "Artemisia", then maybe something else dignifying or empowering, like "Persephone" (mythological queen underground) or "Murasaki" (an ancient novelist). Like Artemis, these are names of figures known for their roles and abilities, and not just for being the pinup models of antiquity.

      The 90's is about the same to me, just more modern at that time. 

      Yes, I am aware of that. I even mention that there was a petition to keep her off TV, movies and video games which is a total waste of time. Also that's why I mentioned that she should be rewritten and rebooted, that way she can be more approachable and a little more likeable. 

      And with people turning everything sexual for fantasies, I get that but that tends to happen to everything anyways. So you have to realize that their are people doing it for fun. The point is to not take it seriously.

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    • Gilgameshkun
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      Withdrawing.
      18:31, October 22, 2017
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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      I'm familiar with Rule 34. I'm not talking about that. I'm talking about something designed for sex or as a sex joke. I mean, she even had a "V" on her belt right above her V. Design a female turtle, fine. But don't name her "Venus de Milo." Ever.

      I think that might be taking out of context from what you're telling me. It's like saying "D" on Donatello's belt means a males genital. I mean if that's what you think that's fine but this kinda falls in to what I said about "Not taking it seriously". If it's intended as a sex joke from writers and desingers, fine but nobody really cares about it. Once the joke is out, it's out.

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    • Gilgameshkun
      Gilgameshkun removed this reply because:
      Withdrawing.
      18:31, October 22, 2017
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    • Gilgameshkun
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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Actually, the fact that her name is "Venus" draws more attention to that. "Venus" is already a rather sexualized reference to begin with. "Donatello" is not.

      Like I said before, just because it was named after a god or goddess doesn't mean they have to live up to the name. I was just saying that as an example of what you said about her belt.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      This discussion is going in circles.

      I guess so

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    • Master DA wrote:
      Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Actually, the fact that her name is "Venus" draws more attention to that. "Venus" is already a rather sexualized reference to begin with. "Donatello" is not.
      Like I said before, just because it was named after a god or goddess doesn't mean they have to live up to the name. I was just saying that as an example of what you said about her belt.

      Did you know, the names of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are not reflective of the personalities of the artists they are named after.

      Leonardo da Vinchi was the only of the 4 who was known as much for inventions as art. Donatello was arguably the leader, or certainly the initiator, of the 'Italian Renaissance' movement. Raphael was a "social butterfly." He was a fun-loving, hard-partying, and amiable guy who was said to have had many, many lovers. He may have even died of an STD. According to theory, Michelangelo had an introverted, temperamental, and brooding personality. Thus, if the male turtles don't live up to their names, then why should Venus. Plus, Venus de Milo was a nickname. Her real name was Mei Pei Chi, and this wiki has the translations of those names, and they are either empowering or statements of fact.

      Plus, if Bayonetta has taught me anything, female sexiness can be very empowering. Venus de Milo can have that name and still be an empowered female character, she just hasn't had that in the past. I think that that is why she needs a revival. I think she is a good idea that everyone hates because of botched execution. And there are plenty of other examples of that in TMNT history.

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    • Just as an example, here is a story i conceptualized for a 2012 show style introduction of Venus, and the story surrounding her. She was the turtle's sister from the pet store that Hamato Yoshi did not buy. Instead, she was bought by Dr. Perri Grey (from the archie comics), a veteranarian who gave her the name Venus de Milo. The turtles descover this and decide to have a family reunion of sorts, when Donatello gets an alert that Hun and the Purple Dragons are highjacking an armored car filled with Mutagen, and by sheer coincidence the car's rout will take it pass Dr. Grey's house. She takes Venus with her to observe from the shadows. The turtles battle Hun and his goons, knocking him into the cargo the Dragon's were atempting to steal, sending mutagen canisters everywhere (this accident also happend to mutate Hun into a turtle, but that's not important), including over Dr. Grey (who mutates into a Flying Squirrel she was caring for in her clinic) which causes her to drop Venus into the sewers, mutagen following. The Dragon's drive the unconsious mutant Hun away, the turtles tend to Perri Grey, and Venus mutates into humanoid form in the sewers, thinking that her "mother" was killed in the accident, and blaming the turtles for it (Like what happened to Slash, the mutagen messed with her mind). The episode ends with John Kommodus, CEO of Go-Kommodo Sports Manufacturing, and self-proclaimed Dragon Lord, is informed by one of his Rank that his mutagen was hijacked and that the entire payload was lost, including the "Special" cannister. We then cut to Venus in the sewers again, where she begins to glow with chi energy.

      In the next episode of this mini-series, the Turtles begin looking for Venus in the sewers, but the Dragon Lord is also looking for her and the mutagen she "stole", sending his mutant Komodo Dragon brother, King Komodo, into the sewers to find her. But Venus is no longer in the sewers, she has been found by Chung I, a tai chi instructor. He has taken her in and promised to train her in his arts, both so she can channel her newfound Chi powers, and control her desire for vengence. Sense she dose not remember her old name, he gives her the name Mei Pei Chi (meaning Beautiful Turtle Mind). After learning decent control of her power, she becomes frustrated with Chung for attempting to quell her nead for revenge and goes into the seweres to look for the turtles. They meet and fight, the Turtles realize Venus's chi powers are too dangerous and bait her back to the lair where Dr. Grey is, waiting for Donnie's retromutagen to finish brewing. When she gets there Venus recognizes her "mother's" voice and tearfully reunites, becoming receptive to the turtle's explained backtory. The Dragon Lord has bean observing these events however and seeing how powerful Venus has become, he comes up with a new stratagey. The lights in the turtle's lair go out, King Komodo's roar is heard, and when the lights come up, the four male turtles and Dr. Grey are gone.

      In the final of these episodes, Venus returns to Chung I to apologize and ask for help. She has received a telepathic messags from the Dragon Lord, ransoming her brothers and mother. Chung I tells her of the legend of the Dragons, who long ago held dominion over china, before a band of warriors hunted them to extinction. Before the final Dragon was killed, he emparted his essence into a pregnant village woman, causing her son to be born with Dragon esque featurs and powers. He laid waste to China, rulling with an iron fist. But as the generations moved on, and his Dragon bloodline was diluted with human DNA, his descendants lost power and were eventually overthown. Chung suspects John Kommodus to be the laest in this bloodline, and after hearing a description of the effects of Mutagen, they deduce that he wants to use a canister of ooze, enchanted with the essence of the dragon, to gain the power of his Dragon ancestors, and that canister was the one that Venus had been doused with. Venus invades the Dragon Lords stronghold, fighting Rank soldiers all the way, and finds the turtles and Dr. Grey attached to machinery. John Komodus explains that he no longer needs the mutagen in her blood, just the dragon magic she "stole". When questioned as to why, he siphons the mutagen from Perri Grey, returning her to human form, and causing John to become a humanoid dragon man, he intends to also drain the mutagen from the turtles. The two fight, and Venus exentually triumphs, using the retro-mutagen from donnie's lab to revert him to human and handing him an his Rank soldiers over to the police. Venus makes peice with her brothers, but tells them that she can't stay with them. She needs to forge her own path in life. So she has decided to go with Chung I to China to continue training. She says goodby to her family and walks off into the sunset.

      How's that for a storyline.

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    • Amazoman wrote:
      Master DA wrote:
      Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Actually, the fact that her name is "Venus" draws more attention to that. "Venus" is already a rather sexualized reference to begin with. "Donatello" is not.
      Like I said before, just because it was named after a god or goddess doesn't mean they have to live up to the name. I was just saying that as an example of what you said about her belt.
      Did you know, the names of the Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles are not reflective of the personalities of the artists they are named after.

      Leonardo da Vinchi was the only of the 4 who was known as much for inventions as art. Donatello was arguably the leader, or certainly the initiator, of the 'Italian Renaissance' movement. Raphael was a "social butterfly." He was a fun-loving, hard-partying, and amiable guy who was said to have had many, many lovers. He may have even died of an STD. According to theory, Michelangelo had an introverted, temperamental, and brooding personality. Thus, if the male turtles don't live up to their names, then why should Venus. Plus, Venus de Milo was a nickname. Her real name was Mei Pei Chi, and this wiki has the translations of those names, and they are either empowering or statements of fact.

      Plus, if Bayonetta has taught me anything, female sexiness can be very empowering. Venus de Milo can have that name and still be an empowered female character, she just hasn't had that in the past. I think that that is why she needs a revival. I think she is a good idea that everyone hates because of botched execution. And there are plenty of other examples of that in TMNT history.

      That's exactly my point. Yes I know she had different names and her real name is Mei Pei Chi but just because she had a bad past that doesn't mean she should have a bad future.

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    • Amazoman wrote:
      Just as an example, here is a story i conceptualized for a 2012 show style introduction of Venus, and the story surrounding her. She was the turtle's sister from the pet store that Hamato Yoshi did not buy. Instead, she was bought by Dr. Perri Grey (from the archie comics), a veteranarian who gave her the name Venus de Milo. The turtles descover this and decide to have a family reunion of sorts, when Donatello gets an alert that Hun and the Purple Dragons are highjacking an armored car filled with Mutagen, and by sheer coincidence the car's rout will take it pass Dr. Grey's house. She takes Venus with her to observe from the shadows. The turtles battle Hun and his goons, knocking him into the cargo the Dragon's were atempting to steal, sending mutagen canisters everywhere (this accident also happend to mutate Hun into a turtle, but that's not important), including over Dr. Grey (who mutates into a Flying Squirrel she was caring for in her clinic) which causes her to drop Venus into the sewers, mutagen following. The Dragon's drive the unconsious mutant Hun away, the turtles tend to Perri Grey, and Venus mutates into humanoid form in the sewers, thinking that her "mother" was killed in the accident, and blaming the turtles for it (Like what happened to Slash, the mutagen messed with her mind). The episode ends with John Kommodus, CEO of Go-Kommodo Sports Manufacturing, and self-proclaimed Dragon Lord, is informed by one of his Rank that his mutagen was hijacked and that the entire payload was lost, including the "Special" cannister. We then cut to Venus in the sewers again, where she begins to glow with chi energy.

      In the next episode of this mini-series, the Turtles begin looking for Venus in the sewers, but the Dragon Lord is also looking for her and the mutagen she "stole", sending his mutant Komodo Dragon brother, King Komodo, into the sewers to find her. But Venus is no longer in the sewers, she has been found by Chung I, a tai chi instructor. He has taken her in and promised to train her in his arts, both so she can channel her newfound Chi powers, and control her desire for vengence. Sense she dose not remember her old name, he gives her the name Mei Pei Chi (meaning Beautiful Turtle Mind). After learning decent control of her power, she becomes frustrated with Chung for attempting to quell her nead for revenge and goes into the seweres to look for the turtles. They meet and fight, the Turtles realize Venus's chi powers are too dangerous and bait her back to the lair where Dr. Grey is, waiting for Donnie's retromutagen to finish brewing. When she gets there Venus recognizes her "mother's" voice and tearfully reunites, becoming receptive to the turtle's explained backtory. The Dragon Lord has bean observing these events however and seeing how powerful Venus has become, he comes up with a new stratagey. The lights in the turtle's lair go out, King Komodo's roar is heard, and when the lights come up, the four male turtles and Dr. Grey are gone.

      In the final of these episodes, Venus returns to Chung I to apologize and ask for help. She has received a telepathic messags from the Dragon Lord, ransoming her brothers and mother. Chung I tells her of the legend of the Dragons, who long ago held dominion over china, before a band of warriors hunted them to extinction. Before the final Dragon was killed, he emparted his essence into a pregnant village woman, causing her son to be born with Dragon esque featurs and powers. He laid waste to China, rulling with an iron fist. But as the generations moved on, and his Dragon bloodline was diluted with human DNA, his descendants lost power and were eventually overthown. Chung suspects John Kommodus to be the laest in this bloodline, and after hearing a description of the effects of Mutagen, they deduce that he wants to use a canister of ooze, enchanted with the essence of the dragon, to gain the power of his Dragon ancestors, and that canister was the one that Venus had been doused with. Venus invades the Dragon Lords stronghold, fighting Rank soldiers all the way, and finds the turtles and Dr. Grey attached to machinery. John Komodus explains that he no longer needs the mutagen in her blood, just the dragon magic she "stole". When questioned as to why, he siphons the mutagen from Perri Grey, returning her to human form, and causing John to become a humanoid dragon man, he intends to also drain the mutagen from the turtles. The two fight, and Venus exentually triumphs, using the retro-mutagen from donnie's lab to revert him to human and handing him an his Rank soldiers over to the police. Venus makes peice with her brothers, but tells them that she can't stay with them. She needs to forge her own path in life. So she has decided to go with Chung I to China to continue training. She says goodby to her family and walks off into the sunset.

      How's that for a storyline.

      Pretty good. I had a similar idea to that with a fan made third sequel to the live TMNT Movies.

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    • Master DA wrote:
      (If you're too inmature then don't answer. I will not answer to childish remarks and please be respectable with good criticism when or if you answer. All opinions are welcomed just be thoughtful about it and this is my opinion so don't get your panties in a twist.)I know what you are thinking right now when you saw this title. You're thinking she should stay dead and never reappear on T.V. or any movies. Now I know she wasn't recieved well because of her bad puns, terrible jokes and too many references for her character but by now I think her hatred have taken a bit too far now. For gods sake there's a petition to keep her off T.V. which is a complete waste of time and jus flat out stupid. I have no problem of adding female members to teams like this like April and Kirai (Sometimes Mona Lisa) but people wouldn't give her a chance now because of the things that happened during her appearances.

      I think she deserves a second chance because this hatred has gone long enough now plus it could go better if she was rewritten and redeveloped she would at least be more approachable. Then she would have a better chance of coming back to the screens. The TMNT 2012 show is out because she already made her cameo in there but the Michael Bay TMNT Movies might make it possible so why not; same goes for Mona Lisa.

      All I'm saying is let's be a little bit more open minded about her because I know she can be redeemed and hopefully make her a better character.

      I'd imagine that Venus is found the same way as the Turtles, but in a different environment. She should also have allies of her own; a caretaker and a scientist like April and Donnie, a martial arts teacher like Leo, and a street vigilante like Raph and Casey.

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    • Desireepurnellsandi wrote:
      Master DA wrote:
      (If you're too inmature then don't answer. I will not answer to childish remarks and please be respectable with good criticism when or if you answer. All opinions are welcomed just be thoughtful about it and this is my opinion so don't get your panties in a twist.)I know what you are thinking right now when you saw this title. You're thinking she should stay dead and never reappear on T.V. or any movies. Now I know she wasn't recieved well because of her bad puns, terrible jokes and too many references for her character but by now I think her hatred have taken a bit too far now. For gods sake there's a petition to keep her off T.V. which is a complete waste of time and jus flat out stupid. I have no problem of adding female members to teams like this like April and Kirai (Sometimes Mona Lisa) but people wouldn't give her a chance now because of the things that happened during her appearances.

      I think she deserves a second chance because this hatred has gone long enough now plus it could go better if she was rewritten and redeveloped she would at least be more approachable. Then she would have a better chance of coming back to the screens. The TMNT 2012 show is out because she already made her cameo in there but the Michael Bay TMNT Movies might make it possible so why not; same goes for Mona Lisa.

      All I'm saying is let's be a little bit more open minded about her because I know she can be redeemed and hopefully make her a better character.

      I'd imagine that Venus is found the same way as the Turtles, but in a different environment. She should also have aliies of her own; a caretaker and a scientist like April and Donnie, a martial arts teacher like Leo, and a street vigilante like Raph and Casey.

      Yes I thought she would also. Would be very interesting to have her own caretakers.

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    • Master DA wrote:
      (If you're too inmature then don't answer. I will not answer to childish remarks and please be respectable with good criticism when or if you answer. All opinions are welcomed just be thoughtful about it and this is my opinion so don't get your panties in a twist.)

      I know what you are thinking right now when you saw this title. You're thinking she should stay dead and never reappear on T.V. or any movies. Now I know she wasn't recieved well because of her bad puns, terrible jokes and too many references for her character but by now I think her hatred have taken a bit too far now. For gods sake there's a petition to keep her off T.V. which is a complete waste of time and jus flat out stupid. I have no problem of adding female members to teams like this like April and Kirai (Sometimes Mona Lisa) but people wouldn't give her a chance now because of the things that happened during her appearances.

      I think she deserves a second chance because this hatred has gone long enough now plus it could go better if she was rewritten and redeveloped she would at least be more approachable. Then she would have a better chance of coming back to the screens. The TMNT 2012 show is out because she already made her cameo in there but the Michael Bay TMNT Movies might make it possible so why not; same goes for Mona Lisa.

      All I'm saying is let's be a little bit more open minded about her because I know she can be redeemed and hopefully make her a better character.

      Honestly, I've never watched The Next Mutation (neither the anime nor the Christmas special of the 90s) and I've heard so many indictments for her,but... this-this broke my heart:

      Born A Stranger

      Born a stranger

      by Momo-no-Ji

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    • Angel Bridge wrote:
      Master DA wrote:
      (If you're too inmature then don't answer. I will not answer to childish remarks and please be respectable with good criticism when or if you answer. All opinions are welcomed just be thoughtful about it and this is my opinion so don't get your panties in a twist.)I know what you are thinking right now when you saw this title. You're thinking she should stay dead and never reappear on T.V. or any movies. Now I know she wasn't recieved well because of her bad puns, terrible jokes and too many references for her character but by now I think her hatred have taken a bit too far now. For gods sake there's a petition to keep her off T.V. which is a complete waste of time and jus flat out stupid. I have no problem of adding female members to teams like this like April and Kirai (Sometimes Mona Lisa) but people wouldn't give her a chance now because of the things that happened during her appearances.

      I think she deserves a second chance because this hatred has gone long enough now plus it could go better if she was rewritten and redeveloped she would at least be more approachable. Then she would have a better chance of coming back to the screens. The TMNT 2012 show is out because she already made her cameo in there but the Michael Bay TMNT Movies might make it possible so why not; same goes for Mona Lisa.

      All I'm saying is let's be a little bit more open minded about her because I know she can be redeemed and hopefully make her a better character.

      Honestly, I've never watched The Next Mutation (neither the anime nor the Christmas special of the 90s) and I've heard so many indictments for her,but... this-this broke my heart:
      Born A Stranger

      Born a stranger

      by Momo-no-Ji

      It's because people don't respect her just because how she was handled back in the 90's. 

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    • Gilgameshkun
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    • Gilgameshkun wrote: The problem is, Venus may be very difficult to rehabilitate for a long time to come. Even when the 2012 TV series referenced her, how did they do it? As a pinup figure painted on the side of a van. To remind audiences, once again, that this is her primary reason for existence, and turn what had been one bad portrayal into a recurring pattern. It's not simply enough to reboot her—one has to completely and successfully reverse the reputation she has accumulated. She has to be a well-rounded character and completely divorced from the legacy of her character design.

      Thing is, a design like Artemisia already fits that bill nicely, and she has none of Venus's baggage, and doesn't have the name that conjures all the wrong associations in the TMNT mythos. But take a character like Artemisia and rename her "Venus," and suddenly every mention of her name becomes its own unhelpful disruption, making it all the harder to take her seriously or change what audiences expect from her. Because it was never that Venus is a woman that makes her a bad idea. It's that she's always been one of the most sexist, unflattering ways to portray a woman that makes her a bad idea. It would take nothing short of an ingenious miracle to overcome this obstacle in any reboot of her character template.

      You do know most of the fanbase is gonna be that anyways. It wont matter as long as they don't take it too far.

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    • Gilgameshkun
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      Withdrawing. Also, I'd like my comments quoted by other users to be removed, please. This discussion is utter poison.
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    • Master DA wrote:
      Angel Bridge wrote:
      Master DA wrote:
      (If you're too inmature then don't answer. I will not answer to childish remarks and please be respectable with good criticism when or if you answer. All opinions are welcomed just be thoughtful about it and this is my opinion so don't get your panties in a twist.)I know what you are thinking right now when you saw this title. You're thinking she should stay dead and never reappear on T.V. or any movies. Now I know she wasn't recieved well because of her bad puns, terrible jokes and too many references for her character but by now I think her hatred have taken a bit too far now. For gods sake there's a petition to keep her off T.V. which is a complete waste of time and jus flat out stupid. I have no problem of adding female members to teams like this like April and Kirai (Sometimes Mona Lisa) but people wouldn't give her a chance now because of the things that happened during her appearances.

      I think she deserves a second chance because this hatred has gone long enough now plus it could go better if she was rewritten and redeveloped she would at least be more approachable. Then she would have a better chance of coming back to the screens. The TMNT 2012 show is out because she already made her cameo in there but the Michael Bay TMNT Movies might make it possible so why not; same goes for Mona Lisa.

      All I'm saying is let's be a little bit more open minded about her because I know she can be redeemed and hopefully make her a better character.

      Honestly, I've never watched The Next Mutation (neither the anime nor the Christmas special of the 90s) and I've heard so many indictments for her,but... this-this broke my heart:
      Born A Stranger

      Born a stranger

      by Momo-no-Ji

      It's because people don't respect her just because how she was handled back in the 90's. 

      I don't think so, but I agree with the last thing you said.

        Loading editor
    • Angel Bridge wrote:
      Master DA wrote:
      Angel Bridge wrote:
      Master DA wrote:
      (If you're too inmature then don't answer. I will not answer to childish remarks and please be respectable with good criticism when or if you answer. All opinions are welcomed just be thoughtful about it and this is my opinion so don't get your panties in a twist.)I know what you are thinking right now when you saw this title. You're thinking she should stay dead and never reappear on T.V. or any movies. Now I know she wasn't recieved well because of her bad puns, terrible jokes and too many references for her character but by now I think her hatred have taken a bit too far now. For gods sake there's a petition to keep her off T.V. which is a complete waste of time and jus flat out stupid. I have no problem of adding female members to teams like this like April and Kirai (Sometimes Mona Lisa) but people wouldn't give her a chance now because of the things that happened during her appearances.

      I think she deserves a second chance because this hatred has gone long enough now plus it could go better if she was rewritten and redeveloped she would at least be more approachable. Then she would have a better chance of coming back to the screens. The TMNT 2012 show is out because she already made her cameo in there but the Michael Bay TMNT Movies might make it possible so why not; same goes for Mona Lisa.

      All I'm saying is let's be a little bit more open minded about her because I know she can be redeemed and hopefully make her a better character.

      Honestly, I've never watched The Next Mutation (neither the anime nor the Christmas special of the 90s) and I've heard so many indictments for her,but... this-this broke my heart:
      Born A Stranger

      Born a stranger

      by Momo-no-Ji

      It's because people don't respect her just because how she was handled back in the 90's. 
      I don't think so, but I agree with the last thing you said.


      Exactly but I just don't think people should still hold this grudge because of it. 

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    • Morty340 wrote:
      Oh, I want Venus back, too! Me and my brother!

      Same here!

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    • Give Venus De Milo a K-Pop vibe!!!! Or even a J-Pop vibe!!!!!

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    • Bmwfan2015 wrote:
      Give Venus De Milo a K-Pop vibe!!!! Or even a J-Pop vibe!!!!!

      Hm...J-pop vibe could be cool. Care to elaborate?

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    • Wingnut II wrote:
      Bmwfan2015 wrote:
      Give Venus De Milo a K-Pop vibe!!!! Or even a J-Pop vibe!!!!!
      Hm...J-pop vibe could be cool. Care to elaborate?

      Well she can be a turtle who traveled to various areas of Asia.

      She would be trained by mystics and several martial arts. Sometimes, she'll go to the modern cities to explore their cultures.

      From K-Pop groups, she would obtain their...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTtsMYNXlL8

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    • Bmwfan2015 wrote:
      Wingnut II wrote:
      Bmwfan2015 wrote:
      Give Venus De Milo a K-Pop vibe!!!! Or even a J-Pop vibe!!!!!
      Hm...J-pop vibe could be cool. Care to elaborate?
      Well she can be a turtle who traveled to various areas of Asia.

      She would be trained by mystics and several martial arts. Sometimes, she'll go to the modern cities to explore their cultures.

      From K-Pop groups, she would obtain their...

      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aTtsMYNXlL8

      Ah. Good to know.

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    • My personal take on it is that she shouldn't, for two reasons:

      1. The whole backstory reminds me of bad fanfic. It really does make me cringe.

      2. The name and what it implies. Leonardo, Donatello, Raphael and Michelangelo are the names of great men who contributed greatly to art and culture. Venus de Milo... was not an artist of any kind, or even a person. It is a thing. An object. Having the only female character be named after a literal object, while the males are all given "people" names, has some very bad connotations.

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    • Easol1 wrote:
      My personal take on it is that she shouldn't, for two reasons:

      1. The whole backstory reminds me of bad fanfic. It really does make me cringe.

      2. The name and what it implies. Leonardo, Donatello, Raphael and Michelangelo are the names of great men who contributed greatly to art and culture. Venus de Milo... was not an artist of any kind, or even a person. It is a thing. An object. Having the only female character be named after a literal object, while the males are all given "people" names, has some very bad connotations.

      I can respect your opinions but I like to add my piece if you don't mind.

      1. Don't blame the stories. Blame the writers. 

      2. Just because their names are named after artists and inventors that doesn't mean it defines them. Michelangelo in real life is Italian Sculptor but TMNT Mikey, he's not making statues. So none of these names are defining them and they're not living up or looking up to them. Venus De Milo aka Mei Pei Chi doesn't define her in anything, so their names don't really define anything. It's like naming your truck Bessie because it was given personality. 

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    • Easol1: This is what I would call a "rabbit hole" topic—one that deeply polarizes opinion and inflames too many opposing passions in ways rarely seen outside politics. There is no debate point that will satisfy your debate opponent, no possible resolution to an argument, just...a black hole of fraught disagreement that will try to consume all your time and energy. Run away, run far away, and don't look back.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Easol1: This is what I would call a "rabbit hole" topic—one that deeply polarizes opinion and inflames too many opposing passions in ways rarely seen outside politics. There is no debate point that will satisfy your debate opponent, no possible resolution to an argument, just...a black hole of fraught disagreement that will try to consume all your time and energy. Run away, run far away, and don't look back.

      First of all, I said that all opinions are welcomed with good criticism. None of the "Cancerous" talk, I stand with my opinions whether you agree or disagree but I never said it was invalid nor was yours. You stand by your opinion and I stand with mine. So it's you that needs to stop making my conversations look bad just because of our disagreement. 

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    • If the discussion looks bad, it's not necessarily because it needed my help. As long as the discussion solicits random user input over such a terminally polarizing topic, the result is going to be very predictably acrimonious, with people ending up using a lot of time and energy to say what amounts to very little. And that's because this is not a topic of rational discussion—it's a topic that hinges on whether the commenter likes or dislikes the character. And when a character is as strongly liked by some and strongly disliked by others as this one, then a thread like this functions primarily as either an echo chamber (if everyone happens to agree) or as flame bait (if anyone disagrees), whether or not it was actually intended as either.

      If you want to gauge fan opinion, you might be better served setting up some kind of poll. And if you want to declare an unsolicited opinion of your own without an existing topic asking for it, there are better ways to do it, such as in writing as a statement on your user page or in a personal blog entry. But with this thread, you solicit debate over what amounts to a fan preference, to which there really can be no detached rational argument for or against.

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    • Wow. It's the "Mutant Apocalypse" Forum all over agin. A simple debate turned into a huge arguement that's been going for 2 years now. I'm not gonna get too involved in this, (especially since I've never wathced "TMNT: The Next Mutation") but I say if they can handle Venus's personality just right to where she has some spotlight, but doesn't completely steal it, I'm fine if she returns. On the other hand, if she doesn't, we've already got April as the leading lady, and Karai was a strong ally for the Turtles in the 2012 series, so I'm cool if she doesn't appear.

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    • Master DA wrote: I think she deserves a second chance because this hatred has gone long enough now plus it could do better if she was rewritten and redeveloped she would at least be more approachable.

      All I'm saying is let's be a little bit more open-minded about her because I know she can be redeemed and hopefully make her a better character.

      I couldn’t agree more. I mean, many characters gone through the “same name, different person” trope (ie. 2012 Tokka and Mona). Why can’t the same go for Venus? You can take the name and physical characteristics of Venus but give her a completely different personality.

      Personality, I believe that people hated her for so long (20+ years) that they forgot why they hated her in the first place, but are so ignorant to remember why. It can happen. That or they’re completely sexist and don’t want a female turtle at all. That’s literally the lamest excuse to hate Venus because “she’s female”. Rude.

      I think she deserves a reset. In other words, starting her character over from scratch and give her the proper respect she deserves. The writers on TNM did not treat her very well. But with the right people and with proper writing, she can be given the proper respect she needs.

      She needs a second chance, but she also needs to be fixed up and changed. Don’t bring back her previous incarnation’s personality and powers. Make her a more grounded character, and make her a sister too. Don’t make them not related to each other so there can be romance. Had enough of that. Plus, it would also be fun to give the turtles a sister. She can be the middle child (younger than Leo and Raph, but older than Donnie and Mikey) and the only girl of the turtles, and because of that, she’s less prone to cave in her brothers’ mischievous antics unlike Leo (and because girls mature faster than boys). She can also be the tiebreaker of the group, such as when her brothers (particularly Leo and Raph) argue over something, she can break them up and try her best to keep them from fighting each other and tells reasonable explanations to them. She can be the most compassionate and trustworthy member of the group aside from Splinter, such as when one of her brothers have a secret and need someone to share it with, they tell her. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t tease them every now and then like real siblings do. Since she’s older than Donnie and Mikey, she can tease them the most and call them “little brother” or “little bro” (which annoys Donnie). She can also be slightly taller than her brothers (except Donnie, who can be taller than her), since female turtles are bigger than males. Her primary weapons can be tongas (weapons that Mikey used in TNM and that Raph will use in Rise of the TMNT), which can upgrade to kunais. Unlike TNM, she is very intrigued with New York culture and wants to learn more about it, but unlike Mikey doesn’t jump in to find out what New York has to offer. She can also be April’s BFF, and have friendly bickering with Casey, similar to Cassandra’s relationship with Rapunzal and Eugene with Tangled: The Series. Overall, I’d like Venus to be a sassy, “tough-as-nails”, bold person, but also clever, caring, patient and cunning.

      So yeah, that’s just how I feel she can be interpreted.

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    • SarahSpyborg259 wrote:

      Master DA wrote: I think she deserves a second chance because this hatred has gone long enough now plus it could do better if she was rewritten and redeveloped she would at least be more approachable.

      All I'm saying is let's be a little bit more open-minded about her because I know she can be redeemed and hopefully make her a better character.

      I couldn’t agree more. I mean, many characters gone through the “same name, different person” trope (ie. 2012 Tokka and Mona). Why can’t the same go for Venus? You can take the name and physical characteristics of Venus but give her a completely different personality.

      Personality, I believe that people hated her for so long (20+ years) that they forgot why they hated her in the first place, but are so ignorant to remember why. It can happen. That or they’re completely sexist and don’t want a female turtle at all. That’s literally the lamest excuse to hate Venus because “she’s female”. Rude.

      I think she deserves a reset. In other words, starting her character over from scratch and give her the proper respect she deserves. The writers on TNM did not treat her very well. But with the right people and with proper writing, she can be given the proper respect she needs.

      She needs a second chance, but she also needs to be fixed up and changed. Don’t bring back her previous incarnation’s personality and powers. Make her a more grounded character, and make her a sister too. Don’t make them not related to each other so there can be romance. Had enough of that. Plus, it would also be fun to give the turtles a sister. She can be the middle child (younger than Leo and Raph, but older than Donnie and Mikey) and the only girl of the turtles, and because of that, she’s less prone to cave in her brothers’ mischievous antics unlike Leo (and because girls mature faster than boys). She can also be the tiebreaker of the group, such as when her brothers (particularly Leo and Raph) argue over something, she can break them up and try her best to keep them from fighting each other and tells reasonable explanations to them. She can be the most compassionate and trustworthy member of the group aside from Splinter, such as when one of her brothers have a secret and need someone to share it with, they tell her. That doesn’t mean she doesn’t tease them every now and then like real siblings do. Since she’s older than Donnie and Mikey, she can tease them the most and call them “little brother” or “little bro” (which annoys Donnie). She can also be slightly taller than her brothers (except Donnie, who can be taller than her), since female turtles are bigger than males. Her primary weapons can be tongas (weapons that Mikey used in TNM and that Raph will use in Rise of the TMNT), which can upgrade to kunais. Unlike TNM, she is very intrigued with New York culture and wants to learn more about it, but unlike Mikey doesn’t jump in to find out what New York has to offer. She can also be April’s BFF, and have friendly bickering with Casey, similar to Cassandra’s relationship with Rapunzal and Eugene with Tangled: The Series. Overall, I’d like Venus to be a sassy, “tough-as-nails”, bold person, but also clever, caring, patient and cunning.

      So yeah, that’s just how I feel she can be interpreted.

      Wow, you literally just read my mind.

        Loading editor
    • If she was ever brought back, I’d like the writers to use this personality I’m throwing around. Wonder what flavour of pizza she’d like?

        Loading editor
    • Yeah, I would like that too. Maybe make her more admirable and even have an odd toppings for her pizza. 

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    • But what flavour? Hawaiian? BBQ Chicken? Jellybeans, anchovies, and jalapeños? Or maybe Asian themed, like sushi pizza.

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    • I think Jellybeans would make it cute or at least Hawaiian.

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    • Okay, I came up with a few quotes I think would be suitable for Venus.

      • “There’s our opening.”
      • “Stop it! Both of you!”
      • “Let’s see how much I ‘play’ with these.”
      • “Hey, little brother.”
      • “You took something, didn’t you Mikey?”
      • “Check this out, April.”
      • “They might be crazy, and they might get on my nerves. But they’re still my brothers. And I’ll fight alongside them until we pass. And hey, it doesn’t hurt to kick back with them. They can be fun too.”
      • “Count me in!”
      • “You don’t mess with a girl like me.”
      • “I do more than taking a backseat, okay?”
      • “*sighs* boys...”
      • “Leo’s not the only one who meditates.”
      • “I've got a bad feeling about this.”
      • “They’re not just tongas. They’re tessens too.”
      • “Isn’t ‘shinobi’ another word for ninja? Ask Donnie about that.”
      • “Never underestimate the lady.
      • “Do you have any idea how crazy this is, Raph?!”
      • “Woo! Pizza!”
      • “Enough, you two.”
      • “Roger that.”


      And also, since she grew up with people opposite her gender, she’s a bit of a tomboy.

      And I changed her upgrade from kunai to tessens.

      And I’m thinking Linda Cardellini could voice her.

        Loading editor
    • Good news! In this interview with Kevin Eastman from two years ago, he states that he actually likes Venus as a character and hopes she can make a comeback.

        Loading editor
    • SarahSpyborg259 wrote:
      Okay, I came up with a few quotes I think would be suitable for Venus.
      • “There’s our opening.”
      • “Stop it! Both of you!”
      • “Let’s see how much I ‘play’ with these.”
      • “Hey, little brother.”
      • “You took something, didn’t you Mikey?”
      • “Check this out, April.”
      • “They might be crazy, and they might get on my nerves. But they’re still my brothers. And I’ll fight alongside them until we pass. And hey, it doesn’t hurt to kick back with them. They can be fun too.”
      • “Count me in!”
      • “You don’t mess with a girl like me.”
      • “I do more than taking a backseat, okay?”
      • “*sighs* boys...”
      • “Leo’s not the only one who meditates.”
      • “I've got a bad feeling about this.”
      • “They’re not just tongas. They’re tessens too.”
      • “Isn’t ‘shinobi’ another word for ninja? Ask Donnie about that.”
      • “Never underestimate the lady.
      • “Do you have any idea how crazy this is, Raph?!”
      • “Woo! Pizza!”
      • “Enough, you two.”
      • “Roger that.”


      And also, since she grew up with people opposite her gender, she’s a bit of a tomboy.

      And I changed her upgrade from kunai to tessens.

      And I’m thinking Linda Cardellini could voice her.

      This could work.

        Loading editor
    • After reading most of this ..Yes, i  think she should come back .I was skeptical before but now , i think it might work.If you are reading this thread  and don't know why i am writing this .. Well this seems to be dead so maybe my comment can revive it ? 

        Loading editor
    • DrScrubChan wrote: After reading most of this ..Yes, i  think she should come back .I was skeptical before but now , i think it might work.If you are reading this thread  and don't know why i am writing this .. Well this seems to be dead so maybe my comment can revive it ? 

      Yes as long as she gets a better development and writing, she could come back some day. Well not necessarily dead, just not active.

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    • Don’t worry, I updated her personality with a little help from my sister.

      Like Rapunzel from Tangled. Less naive, but close. Is very fascinated with human culture and wants to be a human teenage girl, and wants to be more on the feminine. Since she grew up in the sewers, she learns more about human culture through human trash. She would interpret some things right, but would misinterpret other things. She would be ecstatic when seeing a human for the first time. Mainly inspired by her glimpses of aesthetics of human subcultures, like punk, hippies, etc., thus she’s a mix. She meditates because it’s part of hippie culture.

      I also updated her voice actor as well; Kate Micucci.

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    • SarahSpyborg259 wrote:
      Don’t worry, I updated her personality with a little help from my sister.

      Like Rapunzel from Tangled. Less naive, but close. Is very fascinated with human culture and wants to be a human teenage girl, and wants to be more on the feminine. Since she grew up in the sewers, she learns more about human culture through human trash. She would interpret some things right, but would misinterpret other things. She would be ecstatic when seeing a human for the first time. Mainly inspired by her glimpses of aesthetics of human subcultures, like punk, hippies, etc., thus she’s a mix. She meditates because it’s part of hippie culture.

      I also updated her voice actor as well; Kate Micucci.

      Ugh....hippies...

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    • Btw, the reason i came here is because i really wanted a   5th  turtle since  rise of the tmnt  .The turtles are more similar to eachother then before  and there is no serious character to break the ice or change  the  show a bit . Splinter is lame and  stupid , Kasey jones isn't even in the show ( i don't think so anyway) ,April isn't the serious girl  anymore and it all just fell appart for me .

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    • DrScrubChan wrote: Btw, the reason i came here is because i really wanted a   5th  turtle since  rise of the tmnt  .The turtles are more similar to eachother then before  and there is no serious character to break the ice or change  the  show a bit . Splinter is lame and  stupid , Kasey jones isn't even in the show ( i don't think so anyway) ,April isn't the serious girl  anymore and it all just fell appart for me .

      I see your point.

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    • I feel like the creators of shows have to be confident in their decision and stay public about their plans regarding anything that might mean the comeback of older characters .A character is fake , it can be morphed and shaped in to anything so making Venus a good character shouldn't be hard, it's not like it has to transition to a good character since the universe is different . You take basic girl character , add the goofiness of Mikey  , seriousness of Leonardo , nerdiness or Donatello and the sarcasm of Raphael.Make her a friend character like April and Kasey Jones  and if the fans have a bad reaction then you can lengthen the time the character spends on each episode of the show   and then  make her disappear from said show in a way that it might have a impact and make for a good episode . If she is liked you can  slowly let her get in to the main team and hopefully she remains a 5th member , even in future  versions of tmnt.You get to know these original turtle  characters so well that after a while they get boring and predictable but it's hard to   change them to be different because then people would have a bad reaction to the change ...Venus  would be a hyped character  because of her older appearances ,the risk  would't be too high so you can  change the character as much you need to  , her impact could change a show  by breaking the ice and she would be  an older character but still feel fresh( by you i reffer  to what you could do if you where  working for the show .It's my way to avoid assuming the power that the creators have on the cartoon when it comes to  changing scripts  and more )

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    • It's inactive again .Quite sad  ...

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    • DrScrubChan wrote: It's inactive again .Quite sad  ...

      Well it's not gonna catch everyone with new posts going up all the time. I mean I have to wait for someone to reply messages here sometimes.

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    • Master DA wrote:

      DrScrubChan wrote: It's inactive again .Quite sad  ...

      Well it's not gonna catch everyone with new posts going up all the time. I mean I have to wait for someone to reply messages here sometimes.

      Ye true .

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    • DrScrubChan wrote:

      Master DA wrote:

      DrScrubChan wrote: It's inactive again .Quite sad  ...

      Well it's not gonna catch everyone with new posts going up all the time. I mean I have to wait for someone to reply messages here sometimes.

      Ye true .

      Yeah, so its good to be patient.

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    • Master DA, have you seen what I wrote about Venus’ updated personality?

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    • SarahSpyborg259 wrote: Master DA, have you seen what I wrote about Venus’ updated personality?

      I did and its very fasicnating idea you've given her.

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    • You can thank my sister for most of it.

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    • SarahSpyborg259 wrote: You can thank my sister for most of it.

      Tell her, I send my thanks.

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    • I totally agree! Venus definitely deserves a second chance. It would be really cool if she appears in the new tv series. I liked her and I believe that there should be other female lead characters besides April. I even drew a new version of her. In this case, she's a painted turtle. What do ya think?
      A5061BD6-2FC7-46E1-89C4-838174444017

      My version of Venus

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    • MIS99Dream wrote:

      I totally agree! Venus definitely deserves a second chance. It would be really cool if she appears in the new tv series. I liked her and I believe that there should be other female lead characters besides April. I even drew a new version of her. In this case, she's a painted turtle. What do ya think?
      A5061BD6-2FC7-46E1-89C4-838174444017

      My version of Venus

      Interesting concept!

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    • MIS99Dream wrote:
      I totally agree! Venus definitely deserves a second chance. It would be really cool if she appears in the new tv series. I liked her and I believe that there should be other female lead characters besides April. I even drew a new version of her. In this case, she's a painted turtle. What do ya think?
      A5061BD6-2FC7-46E1-89C4-838174444017

      My version of Venus

      Exactly, I hope she does too. It's very nice and would look good on the show.

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    • I feel like adding her into this series would work VERY well considering her formal "magic" abilities from her original series didnt really match the AU tmnt she was in. 

      Now it would be a perfect fit!! 

      I'd be crazy dissapointed (again) if she didn't show up at all or at least make a contemporary mark in the franchise again :(( 

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    • MIS99Dream wrote:
      I totally agree! Venus definitely deserves a second chance. It would be really cool if she appears in the new tv series. I liked her and I believe that there should be other female lead characters besides April. I even drew a new version of her. In this case, she's a painted turtle. What do ya think?
      A5061BD6-2FC7-46E1-89C4-838174444017

      My version of Venus

      Simple but effective style :) I love it!! I think it's also a clever way you placed the pendant that represents her character! The marks are super lovely too! Fantastic drawing :D 

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    • I wish Venus was given a second chance. How about having her end up in Koreatown?

      If a new TMNT was made, have her be formerly Hamato Miwa mutated into a turtle.

      Her weapons can be steel fans, orbs and magics.

      One of her traits to distract some enemies with K-Pop’s aegyo (cuteness)

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    • Bmwfan2015 wrote: I wish Venus was given a second chance. How about having her end up in Koreatown?

      If a new TMNT was made, have her be formerly Hamato Miwa mutated into a turtle.

      Her weapons can be steel fans, orbs and magics.

      One of her traits to distract some enemies with K-Pop’s aegyo (cuteness)

      That's a really good one. I like that one very much.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote: If the discussion looks bad, it's not necessarily because it needed my help. As long as the discussion solicits random user input over such a terminally polarizing topic, the result is going to be very predictably acrimonious, with people ending up using a lot of time and energy to say what amounts to very little. And that's because this is not a topic of rational discussion—it's a topic that hinges on whether the commenter likes or dislikes the character. And when a character is as strongly liked by some and strongly disliked by others as this one, then a thread like this functions primarily as either an echo chamber (if everyone happens to agree) or as flame bait (if anyone disagrees), whether or not it was actually intended as either.

      If you want to gauge fan opinion, you might be better served setting up some kind of poll. And if you want to declare an unsolicited opinion of your own without an existing topic asking for it, there are better ways to do it, such as in writing as a statement on your user page or in a personal blog entry. But with this thread, you solicit debate over what amounts to a fan preference, to which there really can be no detached rational argument for or against.

      If you think I'm telling everyone to agree with me then you are sadly mistaken.

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    • Master DA wrote:

      Bmwfan2015 wrote: I wish Venus was given a second chance. How about having her end up in Koreatown?

      If a new TMNT was made, have her be formerly Hamato Miwa mutated into a turtle.

      Her weapons can be steel fans, orbs and magics.

      One of her traits to distract some enemies with K-Pop’s aegyo (cuteness)

      That's a really good one. I like that one very much.

      Thanks! K-Pop should fit into TMNT somehow.

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    • Or maybe even J-Pop.

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    • SarahSpyborg259 wrote:
      Or maybe even J-Pop.

      Or both Korean & Japanese.

      Hamato Miwa adopted into Koreatown after her parents' demise by Shredder & Kraang.

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    • Bmwfan2015 wrote:
      I wish Venus was given a second chance. How about having her end up in Koreatown?

      If a new TMNT was made, have her be formerly Hamato Miwa mutated into a turtle.

      Her weapons can be steel fans, orbs and magics.

      One of her traits to distract some enemies with K-Pop’s aegyo (cuteness)

      Kevin likes Venus de Milo, which means maybe she will appear. Maybe.

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    • What would be a good color signature for Venus? Pink? Yellow? White?

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    • Bmwfan2015 wrote:
      What would be a good color signature for Venus? Pink? Yellow? White?

      In my opinion Black would look good on her.

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    • Sugilita wrote:
      Bmwfan2015 wrote:
      What would be a good color signature for Venus? Pink? Yellow? White?
      In my opinion Black would look good on her.

      That's Slash's. Maybe Venus' either lime green, pink, yellow or white?

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    • Here's my take for Venus in a new TMNT:

      Born as Hamato Miwa, daughter of Hamato Yoshi & Tang Shen, Miwa was taken to the orphanage by the police, after her parents were murdered by Shredder, Kraang & the Foot. A Korean family adopted her, taking her to Koreatown, given a Korean name. When taken in to a pet store at a young age, she discovered a turtle. Mutagen appeared out of nowhere, splashing her from the last animal she touched. It changed her. The parents were scared at first, but still kept Miwa as their daughter. The family took her to a group of ninjutsu mystics to train her as Miwa learned of her true origins.

      The mystics predicted a dark prophecy that fortells of a great evil (Takeshi Tatsuo) coming to destroy the world. The mystics were suddenly killed by the Dragon Lord Drako, but not before giving Miwa her own quest to find her parents' pet rat Splinter & his sons - the turtles.

      The turtles were skeptical, but learn of her connection to the Hamato family and for Splinter finding out she somehow survived at the attack at her home. She was welcomed and April is welcomed to have her as a sister.

      During Miwa's time with the mystics, she spends time with the modern cultures of Korea's & Japan's. Korea's K-Pop and aegyo & Japan's anime. Mostly music.

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    • Nice!

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    • What about a chain whip for a weapon for Venus? And I think light blue is the best color signature for her.

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    • Morty340 wrote:
      What about a chain whip for a weapon for Venus? And I think light blue is the best color signature for her.

      Kusarigami fits Mikey sadly.

      Steel fans are most suited with a Kitana vibe. And light blue? That's Leo's. Either lime green, yellow, pink or white.

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    • No, Leonardo is blue, not light blue. And Mikey uses Nunchaku.

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    • Not all females need Pink as their main color. And honesty Venus would look bad in Pink.

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    • Morty340 wrote: What about a chain whip for a weapon for Venus? And I think light blue is the best color signature for her.

      I agree that light blue is the best colour for Venus. But i also like fanon art where she wears a black mask. :)

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    • lime green fit her band or white? Slash's eye mask is black.

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    • White...or maybe silver.

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    • It doesn't matter, another character also can wear a black mask.

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    • If Venus returned in a new TMNT series as Hamato Miwa, does anyone have thoughts on Korean names for Venus de Milo?

      Venus can go by many names:

      - Japanese: Hamato Miwa

      - Chinese: Mei Peh Chi

      - Korean: ?

      Steel fans would mostly suit Venus Kitana-style.

      Venus could adopt another name to her alias. Maybe not Renaissance but maybe women artists from Baroque era.

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    • The IDW continuity just introduced a new sister turtle in issue #95: City at War, part 3. Jennika (or Jenny) was already a well-developed human ninja character before her mutation and enjoyed an increasingly family-like relationship with both Splinter and the Turtles, so she is already well-written—that is not something I could ever say about Venus de Milo.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote: The IDW continuity just introduced a new sister turtle in issue #95: City at War, part 3. Jennika (or Jenny) was already a well-developed human ninja character before her mutation and enjoyed an increasingly family-like relationship with both Splinter and the Turtles, so she is already well-written—that is not something I could ever say about Venus de Milo.

      This could probably be the Venus de Milo redemption some of us wanted. However, I don't know if it's confirmed that she'll have the VdM alias.

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    • I hope she doesn't have the Venus de Milo alias. It was never that good an appellation anyway—the other turtles were named after Renaissance artists, and some other characters like Mona Lisa (1987 TV series) were named after Renaissance art subjects, but Venus de Milo was named after an ancient nude statue of a goddess of love. Furthermore, her character was fought over by two other male characters as if she was a prize to be won. These things follow an unfortunate pattern in which men are remembered by what they do, but women are remembered by how they look and/or who the men in their lives are. If other turtles had been named after male art subjects, such as (Michelangelo's) David, it wouldn't seem like such a double standard, but since the turtles were named after artists, it would have been more appropriate for a similarly theme-named female character to be named after another artist.

      All that said, I hope Jennika is still called Jennika or Jenny, as she's always been in the series. If she's suddenly given a theme name to fit the other turtles, it will feel just as forced, artificial and campy as Venus de Milo herself. Venus's character template was ill-conceived in such a way that it undermined her credibility as a character. But Jennika is already a well-developed complex character who since befriending Clan Hamato has acted with ever more conscience, fidelity and courage of her own, and even in matters of love she is a friend and companion rather than a trophy or one-dimensional sex symbol.

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    • I honestly hope it's less a Venus de Milo reboot than just a female mutant turtle character free of baggage.

      I also hope they don't go the obvious route of trying to pair her up with one of the boys.

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    • Easol1 wrote:
      I honestly hope it's less a Venus de Milo reboot than just a female mutant turtle character free of baggage.

      I also hope they don't go the obvious route of trying to pair her up with one of the boys.

      There is a rumour of her getting involved with Casey. Hope this is not true. XD

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    • Jennika had already started dating Casey before this all started.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Jennika had already started dating Casey before this all started.

      Wonder how long this relationship will last.

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    • Relationships come and go. And that's okay, especially in a series with such well-developed characters like this one.

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    • It certainly might put a strain on the relationship...

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    • Reading back on the last several issues, it is not actually clear yet that Casey and Jennika have a relationship. They have chemistry and they like and care about each other, but until now they've only gone out on a date or two. When Jenny was impaled, Casey was the most desperate to save her life.

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    • The S added this image to Jennika/Gallery, but I don't know the image's source.

      Jennika mutant

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote: The S added this image to Jennika/Gallery, but I don't know the image's source.

      Jennika mutant

      I did see that image on either Twitter or Tumblr.

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    • Ms.HamatoAlexander wrote:

      Gilgameshkun wrote: The S added this image to Jennika/Gallery, but I don't know the image's source.

      Jennika mutant

      I did see that image on either Twitter or Tumblr.

      Wonder if they'll give her a new name.

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    • From the looks of it, I'd say they are keeping her name being Jennika.

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    • Darth0Gonzo wrote:
      From the looks of it, I'd say they are keeping her name being Jennika.

      But does the name "Jennika" mean anything? Or relate to anything?

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    • Well I found an artist named Jennika who started in 2009.

      http://www.jennikabastian.com/jennika-bastian-artist-about

      I don't know if that's where name is from or not.

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    • Bmwfan2015 wrote:
      Darth0Gonzo wrote:
      From the looks of it, I'd say they are keeping her name being Jennika.
      But does the name "Jennika" mean anything? Or relate to anything?

      Bobby Curnow stated

      "Not to my knowledge, no. Just a name Tom liked if I recall correctly."

      ​​​​​​
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    • Jennika jenny

      The name "Jennica" is a blend of "Jennifer" and "Jessica" which was first used in the 20th century. "Jennika" is just an alternate spelling. Compare other names of nebulous origin like "Pamela," "Melinda," "Kendra" and the Mirage TMNT character Lucindra whose mother couldn't decide between "Lucille" and "Cassandra." If you're curious about the two names that make up "Jennika:"

      • "Jennifer" is a name never attested before the early 20th century, but is traditionally a form of "Guinevere," of Celtic origin meaning "fair spirit," and the name of a character from Arthurian legend. The "J" in "Jennifer" may be influenced by the unrelated name "Juniper," of Latin origin, as is much more blatantly the case in various other loaned forms of "Guinevere" on the European mainland such as Italian "Ginevra."
      • "Jessica" is also of slightly nebulous origin but has a longer history, first attested in this form in the character Jessica from the William Shakespeare play The Merchant of Venice. The name is believed to be a form of the Biblical Hebrew name יִסְכָּה "Yiskā," meaning "foresight," and the name of a niece of Abraham. In the Matthew Bible of Shakespeare's time, this name was written "Iesca" or "Jesca," but in today's more common King James Bible it is written "Iscah."

      One thing to realize about the IDW turtles is that, unlike in most other versions, Splinter did not name them—April did, when they were still unmutated laboratory animals at StockGen, and it was because she was studying those artists when she was still in college at the time. The names just stuck with them as their primary names in their newly reincarnated lives. Splinter remembers that he was Hamato Yoshi in his past life, and the names of the Hamato Sons in their past lives have still never been revealed (whether the turtles themselves remember these names or not), so it is what it is. Michelangelo claims his middle name is "Tezuka," but it seems highly improbable this was a name in his past life, and more likely it's because Mikey loved manga and claimed the middle name (in addition to a string of others) out of his love for Osamu Tezuka, claiming to Manmoth that his full name was "Michelangelo Tezuka Action Hamato," before adding "Genius" as yet another middle name. April did not name Jennika, and the series has not otherwise stuck to any kind of artist theme naming of characters. For instance, Raphael's pet baby protoceratops is named "Pepperoni," and he also named a baby velociraptor "Anchovy" who later mutated and became the third member of Bebop and Rocksteady's gang. So there's no special reason for Jenny to be named after any artist, Renaissance or otherwise.

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    • I think TMNT should have a new TMNT series outside of Jennika & Venus. I'd like a female turtle named Artemisia (named after Artemisia Gentileschi .

      She'll be once Hamato Miwa later adopted by a Korean family. At a young age, she got mutated into a turtle after touching it. Taken to a group of mystics and learning of her origin, she teams up with the turtles to battle a powerful threat than the Shredder: Kavaxas.

      Steel fans can work.

      If not Artemisis due to her letter starting "a".Anything from the Baroque era from this?

      https://www.thoughtco.com/women-artists-of-the-seventeenth-century-3528420

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    • Sophie Campbell already named her sister turtle Artemisia in Secrets of the Ooze, so it's not a new idea.

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    • I hope to see Jennika in more Turtle media outside of the comics.

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    • Darth0Gonzo wrote:
      I hope to see Jennika in more Turtle media outside of the comics.

      Me too!

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    • I know her backstory would have to be changed, but I really want to see her in future cartoons, games, & movies.

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    • Well, Jennika is a turtle sister concept actually done right, so she's an example to aspire to. The best thing they could have done was developing her as much for as long as they did before revealing her mutation, so we already respect her and know some of her depth.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Well, Jennika is a turtle sister concept actually done right, so she's an example to aspire to. The best thing they could have done was developing her as much for as long as they did before revealing her mutation, so we already respect her and know some of her depth.

      I just hope they'll make her different outside the comics. Make her Hamato Miwa mutated and give her new weapons!!!

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    • Hamato Miwa was an idea very particular to the 2012 TV series and related continuities. It's hard to imagine her being used again in that template unless another version of Hamato Yoshi has another biological daughter. To be honest, I'm still hoping for a reimagining of Leonardo's daughter Yumi, and she and her mother appear to have been the visual inspiration for Miwa to begin with.

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    • SarahSpyborg259 wrote: Don’t worry, I updated her personality with a little help from my sister.

      Like Rapunzel from Tangled. Less naive, but close. Is very fascinated with human culture and wants to be a human teenage girl, and wants to be more on the feminine. Since she grew up in the sewers, she learns more about human culture through human trash. She would interpret some things right, but would misinterpret other things. She would be ecstatic when seeing a human for the first time. Mainly inspired by her glimpses of aesthetics of human subcultures, like punk, hippies, etc., thus she’s a mix. She meditates because it’s part of hippie culture.

      I also updated her voice actor as well; Kate Micucci.

      How's my idea then for Venus?

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    • If Jennika was to be in future TMNT cartoons after Rise, should she be there from the start?

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    • Is it weird I think they are going to reveal that Jennika is the reincarnation of Tang Shen?

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    • Tom Waltz posted a preveiw to the next issue, if you don't want spoilers don't open the link.

      https://twitter.com/TomWaltz/status/1149009937164636162

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    • Darth0Gonzo, they better not for two reasons. 1. It would make the sort of father/daughter relationship she has with Splinter really icky, and 2. Tang Shen has been guiding her sons and husband as a ghost. 

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    • Well I hadn't gotten that far in the comics yet I just started reading them today.

      I got the idea when reading issue five, because Tang Shen was wearing yellow, but I might just be stretching for a way for her to be related to them in some way, it's more possible that they retcon Tang was pregnate with a baby girl when she died, or that Yoshi and Shen had daughter that died before her brothers were born.

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    • Darth0Gonzo wrote:
      Tom Waltz posted a preveiw to the next issue, if you don't want spoilers don't open the link.

      https://twitter.com/TomWaltz/status/1149009937164636162

      I love Leo's expression in the first image. He looks like he's thinking, "Ugh, I need orange slices."

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    • The S
      The S removed this reply because:
      bad joke sorry
      21:34, July 10, 2019
      This reply has been removed
    • Darth0Gonzo wrote:
      Well I hadn't gotten that far in the comics yet I just started reading them today.

      I got the idea when reading issue five, because Tang Shen was wearing yellow, but I might just be stretching for a way for her to be related to them in some way, it's more possible that they retcon Tang was pregnate with a baby girl when she died, or that Yoshi and Shen had daughter that died before her brothers were born.

      Ah, I see. Well, you have a lot to get through, especially with Tang Shen. Enjoy the comics!

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    • SarahSpyborg259 wrote:

      SarahSpyborg259 wrote: Don’t worry, I updated her personality with a little help from my sister.

      Like Rapunzel from Tangled. Less naive, but close. Is very fascinated with human culture and wants to be a human teenage girl, and wants to be more on the feminine. Since she grew up in the sewers, she learns more about human culture through human trash. She would interpret some things right, but would misinterpret other things. She would be ecstatic when seeing a human for the first time. Mainly inspired by her glimpses of aesthetics of human subcultures, like punk, hippies, etc., thus she’s a mix. She meditates because it’s part of hippie culture.

      I also updated her voice actor as well; Kate Micucci.

      How's my idea then for Venus?

      Um, did anyone see this? 🤨

      I hope you’re not ignoring it. 😰

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    • Why not Jennika have a eye mask that's greenish or white? Yellow's too much like April's.

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    • SarahSpyborg259 wrote:

      SarahSpyborg259 wrote:

      SarahSpyborg259 wrote: Don’t worry, I updated her personality with a little help from my sister.

      Like Rapunzel from Tangled. Less naive, but close. Is very fascinated with human culture and wants to be a human teenage girl, and wants to be more on the feminine. Since she grew up in the sewers, she learns more about human culture through human trash. She would interpret some things right, but would misinterpret other things. She would be ecstatic when seeing a human for the first time. Mainly inspired by her glimpses of aesthetics of human subcultures, like punk, hippies, etc., thus she’s a mix. She meditates because it’s part of hippie culture.

      I also updated her voice actor as well; Kate Micucci.

      How's my idea then for Venus?

      Um, did anyone see this? 🤨

      I hope you’re not ignoring it. 😰

      It's an interesting idea.

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    • Should there be a Jennika Thread made? So we don't talk her about on this Venus one because they aren't the same character.

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    • Darth0Gonzo wrote:
      Should there be a Jennika Thread made? So we don't talk her about on this Venus one because they aren't the same character.

      Good idea.

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    • Darth0Gonzo wrote: Is it weird I think they are going to reveal that Jennika is the reincarnation of Tang Shen?

      Omg, this would be awkward, Casey unknowingly dating the mom of the turtles. XD

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    • What if Venus was loosely named after Alexandros of Antioch, who sculpted the Venus de Milo statue, but would be spelt as Alexandra?

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    • SarahSpyborg259 wrote: What if Venus was loosely named after Alexandros of Antioch, who sculpted the Venus de Milo statue, but would be spelt as Alexandra?

      That would be a nice twist for her.

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    • But we might never see Venus because of Jennika. :(

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    • Major bummer, dudes...but Jennika is only part of one iteration. This might cool the waters enough so we get a better chance of seeing Venus in the franchise again.

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    • Venus was permanently disavowed by Mirage and now also by Viacom, and I believe there's a very good reason to do this as I suggested in Thread:227506#149:

      What I'm saying is not only that her portrayal was sexist, but also that she never should have been named Venus de Milo in the first place, because with it already not striking anyone as a realistic personal name in any language, it combines the namesakes of four male artists of skill and one female art subject of looks. If a character with that name existed in isolation, it wouldn't be an issue. But when the symbolism of her name is compared with the symbolism of the other four's names, the implications were always going to be unfortunate: That men are doers, and women are there to look pretty for men. And considering both Venus de Milo's naming and portrayal came from the same show, I don't really think this was an accident—she was conceived from the top down in a sexist manner, which hinders any rehabilitation of a rebooted version of the character as long as she has that name.

      Seeing Venus de Milo as a rebooted character is about as likely and as welcome as seeing Vulvana rebooted in a kid's cartoon.

      And on the subject of renaming her something like Alexandra, I mentioned in Thread:227506#198:

      Naming her Alexandra would be like naming her Leonarda, Raffaella, Donatella or Michelangela. A gender flip. And that would be all right if it were just as easily to gender-flip one of the main four turtle templates as it was Alexandros. But the reasons for naming her Alexandra would only be a band-aid for Venus de Milo's template being so sexist to begin with. Better in context to just name her after an actual woman artist, such as Artemisia.

      Venus de Milo's original conception was fatally flawed from the start. Characters like Jennika are the closest we're going to get to a licensed reboot of her. There was never anything intrinsically problematic with having women mutant ninja turtles. The issue is how you go about it, and just as Venus de Milo was an extremely bad way of going about it, Jennika is a very good way of going about it.

      Jennika is well-developed, she's proven capable, and the story's art and narrative have made as big a deal about her being female as it has made about the four turtles being male—very little, which is as much a service to balanced dignified gender portrayals as it is to gender parity. She can be feminine when she wants to be, but she is not expected to be anyone but herself, and her new family and her boyfriend never seem to judge her character on the basis of her gender or level of femininity. Jennika has been fantastically successful at avoiding sexist character design baggage every step of the way, which is a feat Venus de Milo will never be able to claim, because sexism was baked into her character template from day one.

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    • But you know what? If it's all right to name Venus de Milo after an art subject and portray her as a sex object, then what's good for the goose is good for the gander. A rebooted version of the four turtles can also be named after timeless male art subjects renowned for their beauty (if not always for their skill):

      • Leonardo could be renamed Farnese after the Farnese Hercules, because one of Hercules' labors was the Nemean Lion, and Leonardo's name means "lion-bold." He could be called Farn or Farny for short.
      • Raphael could be renamed Fabio, or Fab for short, because he's just that fab in his own mind.
      • Donatello could be renamed Adonis, or Donnie for short, because...okay, I didn't have to think hard for that one.
      • Michelangelo could be renamed David after Michelangelo's David. He could be called Dave or Davy for short.

      And it actually could be good. Just imagine it. Fab's personality wouldn't even really have to change.

      TTT&S - Aww yeah

      But I think I also made my point.

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    • Wait....VULVANA?! THAT WAS REAL?!?

      keels over from laughter

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      But you know what? If it's all right to name Venus de Milo after an art subject and portray her as a sex object, then what's good for the goose is good for the gander. A rebooted version of the four turtles can also be named after timeless male art subjects renowned for their beauty (if not always for their skill):
      • Leonardo could be renamed Farnese after the Farnese Hercules, because one of Hercules' labors was the Nemean Lion, and Leonardo's name means "lion-bold." He could be called Farn or Farny for short.
      • Raphael could be renamed Fabio, or Fab for short, because he's just that fab in his own mind.
      • Donatello could be renamed Adonis, or Donnie for short, because...okay, I didn't have to think hard for that one.
      • Michelangelo could be renamed David after Michelangelo's David. He could be called Dave or Davy for short.

      And it actually could be good. Just imagine it. Fab's personality wouldn't even really have to change.

      TTT&S - Aww yeah

      But I think I also made my point.

      1. What if they rewrote Venus' character (to NOT be a sex object, which more-or-less backfired) and renamed her something different? Maybe like...Artemisia?

      2. Farny, Fab, David & Adonis? Thank you for inadvertently inspiring me...now I know what to call the awesome foursome's human selves in my fanfiction!!

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      1. Artemisia could be a good character design. But at the same time, a new character given a new name is basically who Jennika is anyway. Not that there couldn't be a continuity that could have both Artemisia and Jennika if Artemisia were ever accepted into a licensed work, especially considering Sophie designed both mutant turtles.
      2. Hahahaha. XD Is Adonis still going to be "Donnie?"
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    • 1. Didn't know Sophie Campbell actually did that, but okay. I just feel like Venus could be done right if her character was rewritten & improved.

      2. Yep. Don't mess with a good thing.

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    • Wingnut II wrote:
      I just feel like Venus could be done right if her character was rewritten & improved.

      Same.

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    • Glad to know somebody agrees

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    • In my verse, she was raised alongside her brothers, is the peacekeeper, and, as I mentioned before, is like a mix of Rapunzal from Tangled (less naive, but close), Honey Lemon from Big Hero 6 (both the movie and the show), and Webby from DuckTales 2017 (but less hyper). She will have chi powers (which is NOT called Shinobi this time), but in the future when she’s an adult, mid 30s I think. For now, she has Tonfas that turn into Tessens, though I'm considering giving her different weapons that isn't too similar to the boys' weapons.

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    • SarahSpyborg259 wrote:
      Wingnut II wrote:
      I just feel like Venus could be done right if her character was rewritten & improved.
      Same.

      That's right. Just do character rewriting and improvement with Venus, give her a better and awesome ninja weapon, and bada-bing, bada-boom, she'll truly be a fifth Ninja Turtle and Jennika will be acknowledged as the sixth one while being the second female Ninja Turtle!

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    • Morty340 wrote:

      That's right. Just do character rewriting and improvement with Venus, give her a better and awesome ninja weapon, and bada-bing, bada-boom, she'll truly be a fifth Ninja Turtle and Jennika will be acknowledged as the sixth one while being the second female Ninja Turtle!

      Ooo, that's a good one. I keep tossing around what Jenny would do or be in my verse. I don't think she'll be related to them, but maybe be a mother-figure to the turtles, next to Splinter who is pretty much their father. If she were mutated, maybe have her still a turtle, or even a rat/turtle hybrid, and the unwilling first.

      Or maybe even pull a Ducktales 2017 and have Venus admire and wanting to be friends with Jenny, (maybe seeing her as a big sister) unknowing of her true intentions until later, similar to Webby and Lena.

      Or maybe maybe, merge Venus and Jenny together and still call her either Venus or Jennika, or give her a new name like Alexandra. I'm just throwing this one out there. I may not use this idea, but I'm sure someone out there would. The Two Characters into One trope is a common trope of TMNT, after all.

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    • SarahSpyborg259 wrote:
      In my verse, she was raised alongside her brothers, is the peacekeeper, and, as I mentioned before, is like a mix of Rapunzal from Tangled (less naive, but close), Honey Lemon from Big Hero 6 (both the movie and the show), and Webby from DuckTales 2017 (but less hyper). She will have chi powers (which is NOT called Shinobi this time), but in the future when she’s an adult, mid 30s I think. For now, she has Tonfas that turn into Tessens, though I'm considering giving her different weapons that isn't too similar to the boys' weapons.

      That's a little similar to my portrayal of her in my fic, in some aspects...but that's nice.

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    • SarahSpyborg259 wrote:
      Morty340 wrote:

      That's right. Just do character rewriting and improvement with Venus, give her a better and awesome ninja weapon, and bada-bing, bada-boom, she'll truly be a fifth Ninja Turtle and Jennika will be acknowledged as the sixth one while being the second female Ninja Turtle!

      Ooo, that's a good one. I keep tossing around what Jenny would do or be in my verse. I don't think she'll be related to them, but maybe be a mother-figure to the turtles, next to Splinter who is pretty much their father. If she were mutated, maybe have her still a turtle, or even a rat/turtle hybrid, and the unwilling first.

      Or maybe even pull a Ducktales 2017 and have Venus admire and wanting to be friends with Jenny, (maybe seeing her as a big sister) unknowing of her true intentions until later, similar to Webby and Lena.

      Or maybe maybe, merge Venus and Jenny together and still call her either Venus or Jennika, or give her a new name like Alexandra. I'm just throwing this one out there. I may not use this idea, but I'm sure someone out there would. The Two Characters into One trope is a common trope of TMNT, after all.

      I like the pulling a Ducktales 2017 idea for Venus.

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    • Wingnut II wrote:

      SarahSpyborg259 wrote:
      In my verse, she was raised alongside her brothers, is the peacekeeper, and, as I mentioned before, is like a mix of Rapunzal from Tangled (less naive, but close), Honey Lemon from Big Hero 6 (both the movie and the show), and Webby from DuckTales 2017 (but less hyper). She will have chi powers (which is NOT called Shinobi this time), but in the future when she’s an adult, mid 30s I think. For now, she has Tonfas that turn into Tessens, though I'm considering giving her different weapons that isn't too similar to the boys' weapons.

      That's a little similar to my portrayal of her in my fic, in some aspects...but that's nice.

      It could be coincidence. The Tangled bit was my sister’s idea, and the chi-future-adult idea is from Ben 10, specifically the episode Ben 10,000.

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    • Cool!

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    • If her renaissance name was too sexual they could've just kept her actual name, to have some sort of meaning to her father Chung who later died by the DragonLord or call him an Ancient Warlord that wishes to destroy the Shinobi and all of the world. Her name is will always be Mei Pieh Chi. I'm now also aware of what they did to her and feel like it is trully barbaric. Recently in the TMNT comics they have made a female turle...but wait, it's not our Chinese gal. It's a former foot member named Jennika, the turtles became friends and formed a sibling like bond with Jennika and when she was on the verge of death, one of the turtles made a sacrafice to transfer her their mutated blood, transforming her into a Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtle...I call it an insult to forget Venus aka Mei. Not to mention little hints and jokes they make about her in the shows. Absolutely sick. You can't just introduce a character and expect their existence will just fade, you'd have to be an idiot to think that'd work. As long as she is remembered she will not go away. Turtle Power and Hope that's all that is needed dudes...😁✌

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    • Who wants Venus de Milo rewritten with a K-Pop vibe instead? Get rid of what made her in TNM!

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    • K-Pop vibe???

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    • Hmm....sure

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    • So uh... Not sure if anyone is still reading this discussion thread but meh screw it. Here's my two cents:


      Many have mentioned Venus de Milo's name as an overall negative aspect of her that makes her a flawed character to her core. Be it the fact that she's named after Venus, the goddess love, beauty, desire, sex, and fertility; and the fact that she's named after a statue, meaning that she's an object or "objectified" if you will.


      These are definitely valid points to make in terms of why this character was created and what her original function was: a sex object for the boys to drool and fight over. What I think people are looking over are a lot of the opportunities presented here for a truly great character.


      The name of the game is subversion, irony, and symbolism. What I would do to reinterpret Venus is have her backstory be that she's a monstrous turtle artificially created by some person or organization (be it the Foot or Baxter Stockman or whatnot) to be a weapon to fight against the turtles to defeat them once and for all and all that villainy jazz. In other words, she was made as a tool or "object" for destruction. Then maybe have the turtles free her prior to or after being mind controlled or enslaved and whatnot.


      What you're left with is a character who is decently intelligent and well spoken but is big, monstrous, and scary looking (aka the exact opposite of everything the goddess Venus is) who was originally built as a biological weapon. Her ambitions should range from wanting to fit in and be a sister to the turtles despite her very different appearance (and maybe even symbolizes her wanting to be accepted by the fanbase at large) to wanting to move past her original intention of being a weapon of destruction.


      If anyone wants to fill in some of the blanks to my idea (personality aspects, design ideas, weapons, abilities, voice actress, etc) then hey be my guest.


      And if anyone wants to point out that a character like what I just described already exists, then also be my guest. I'm a rather casual fan who grew up on the 2003 show, watched a decent amount of the 2012 one, and watched the original trilogy of live action movies alongside the 2007 animated one. With a franchise as big as TMNT, I wouldn't be surprised if my idea has already been implemented somewhat in at least 1 iteration.


      For anyone that actually bothered reading all of this what-if stuff I just typed out, thanks. I rarely ever directly participate in these kind of discusion threads beyond just reading and skimming through them. 


      I came to the wiki today out of curiosity to see if Venus had ever been readapted into a new cartoon or comic or whatnot and I was surprised to see that she remained forever trapped in Next Mutation. Which I hope changes one day. I'm a firm believer in the idea that there's no such thing as bad ideas. Just bad executions.

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    • A Simple Man Making His Way wrote: So uh... Not sure if anyone is still reading this discussion thread but meh screw it. Here's my two cents:


      Many have mentioned Venus de Milo's name as an overall negative aspect of her that makes her a flawed character to her core. Be it the fact that she's named after Venus, the goddess love, beauty, desire, sex, and fertility; and the fact that she's named after a statue, meaning that she's an object or "objectified" if you will.


      These are definitely valid points to make in terms of why this character was created and what her original function was: a sex object for the boys to drool and fight over. What I think people are looking over are a lot of the opportunities presented here for a truly great character.


      The name of the game is subversion, irony, and symbolism. What I would do to reinterpret Venus is have her backstory be that she's a monstrous turtle artificially created by some person or organization (be it the Foot or Baxter Stockman or whatnot) to be a weapon to fight against the turtles to defeat them once and for all and all that villainy jazz. In other words, she was made as a tool or "object" for destruction. Then maybe have the turtles free her prior to or after being mind controlled or enslaved and whatnot.


      What you're left with is a character who is decently intelligent and well spoken but is big, monstrous, and scary looking (aka the exact opposite of everything the goddess Venus is) who was originally built as a biological weapon. Her ambitions should range from wanting to fit in and be a sister to the turtles despite her very different appearance (and maybe even symbolizes her wanting to be accepted by the fanbase at large) to wanting to move past her original intention of being a weapon of destruction.


      If anyone wants to fill in some of the blanks to my idea (personality aspects, design ideas, weapons, abilities, voice actress, etc) then hey be my guest.


      And if anyone wants to point out that a character like what I just described already exists, then also be my guest. I'm a rather casual fan who grew up on the 2003 show, watched a decent amount of the 2012 one, and watched the original trilogy of live action movies alongside the 2007 animated one. With a franchise as big as TMNT, I wouldn't be surprised if my idea has already been implemented somewhat in at least 1 iteration.


      For anyone that actually bothered reading all of this what-if stuff I just typed out, thanks. I rarely ever directly participate in these kind of discusion threads beyond just reading and skimming through them. 


      I came to the wiki today out of curiosity to see if Venus had ever been readapted into a new cartoon or comic or whatnot and I was surprised to see that she remained forever trapped in Next Mutation. Which I hope changes one day. I'm a firm believer in the idea that there's no such thing as bad ideas. Just bad executions.

      I agree. Thats why I said that she needs to be redeveloped and rewritten, so she can be more approachable to fans of TMNT and give her a better reputation.

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    • Nice.

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    • I hope it changes one day as well. Kevin might make it possible.

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    • For sure. He'd definitely be down to see her return in some way.

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    • I think it also has something do with the fact that Nick doesn't have the full rights to Venus, the last I heard was that Saban had some of her right which might be at Hasbro now.

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    • It was always far more likely that any new female turtle character was going to be a new design. It may be all for the best moving forward with fresh designs. And now we have not only Jennika, but now also the (still unnamed) albino turtle girl who first appeared in issue #101.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      It was always far more likely that any new female turtle character was going to be a new design. It may be all for the best moving forward with fresh designs. And now we have not only Jennika, but now also the (still unnamed) albino turtle girl who first appeared in issue #101.

      Wonder what she'll be named as? Any good female renaissance artists or baroque artists in mind?

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    • We'll just have to wait for the next issues.

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    • Hopefully the Albino turtle is the last one. No more new turtles.

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    • This thread primarily concerns whether or not Venus de Milo specifically should be rebooted.


      But on the topic of more new turtles:

      As long as any newly introduced turtle characters are well-written in their own right, I'm not about to care how many different mutant turtles grace a story.

      And in a place like Mutant Town, there's always the chance of incidental supporting characters or random background characters who are neither ninja nor "one of the Turtles," but just happen to be mutant turtles. Because whether the next Mutant Towner happens to be a turtle or not is no longer all that remarkable, which is precisely why Raph and Jenny can now walk around in public without issue. For example, when Mona Lisa met Jennika for the first time, Mona at first wondered if Jenny was that turtle ninja vigilante (Raph) that Mutant Towners had been seeing around, but Mona otherwise found nothing remarkable about Jenny being a turtle, since it was no more remarkable than Mona being a lizard or Alopex being an arctic fox or Sally Pride being a lioness or Diamond being a porcupine or Sheena being a pig.

      This is now a scenario more like After the Bomb (also the name of Sheena's band), where mutant characters can outnumber human characters, and you shouldn't be surprised by all the different species you see. So when you said "no more new turtles," I cringed. If you were to say such a thing in the context of this story, it begins to sound just like saying "no more new raccoons" or "no more new lizards" or "no more new porcupines" or "no more new Mutant Towners." With the story inviting its readers to sympathize with the plight of up to thousands of Mutant Towners with such diverse appearances, as well as this particular plot's blatant allegorical similarity to the real world's unhappy history of involuntary urban ghettos and urban separation walls, I shouldn't have to explain why "no more new XYZ" starts sounding uncomfortable in context. You may have meant "no more new turtles" in the context of the overall series or the TMNT mythos as a whole, but considering that all these characters were forced to live in a glorified open-air prison because of what they are rather than who they are, your words sounded...especially wrong.

      You see, Sophie's storytelling here has proven extraordinarily effective and immersive, holding its own just as well as any other TMNT writer's material I've ever encountered. When I saw the albino turtle for the first time, I wasn't thinking of how she might affect the balance of turtle characters in the story—I saw a homeless child and cared about what would happen to her. At the same time, Jenny was meeting with Al at Alopex's shelter, which Al explained is for the all too many Mutant Towners who are homeless, hungry, cold, or still struggling to cope psychologically with their change. Al mentioned seeing a lot of unaccompanied homeless children in Mutant Town, and explained that the common wisdom was that many of these children have still-human parents living outside Mutant Town who promptly disowned and abandoned them to their fates after the bomb. (And it was similar for many homeless adults, who had been fired from jobs, evicted from homes, kicked out of schools, abandoned by loved ones, etc.) Something similar has happened before now and then in the mythos, and since parents forcing their kids into homelessness is something that still actually happens in the real world for other, nonfictional reasons, storylines like these can still resonate with readers. And considering that another IDW regular turtle, Raphael, also started his story as a homeless youth after mutating and being separated from his family, I can hardly think of a more appropriate way to introduce this albino turtle into the story 100 issues later.

      Who knows? Sophie isn't telling anyone this character's name yet, but maybe she's the new version of Shadow.

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    • Or maybe this Albino turtle is the new Venus de Milo. The new version of Venus being a child would be a interesting twist. Is not said that the new Venus needs to be an adult.

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    • Well, true, if at least because it might shame people who had wanted a new Venus de Milo because they wanted to ogle her. But from what I understand of Sophie, I'm rather skeptical that she would subject a character so young to such a discussion topic, nor do I think her editors or Viacom would be entirely comfortable with it. I needn't remind anyone that Venus de Milo is still one of the most loaded topics in TMNT history, and this is the same Viacom that vetoed Sophie's original plan to name Natsu "Tatsu."

      I could almost (almost) understand a little girl being named simply Venus (without the "de Milo"), since that actually has been used as a baby name (compare Venus Williams). Aphrodite, as well, especially in modern Greece (Αφροδίτη, Afroditi). Even the name April, as it turns out, is more obscurely derived from the name Aphrodite through layers of Etruscan and Latin loans. But all the latter point really means to me is that the Venus de Milo character may have originally just been a reimagined turtle version of April herself.

      Don't forget this is a little girl. The circumstances in which she is named would have to be appropriate to that fact. I mean, it would be absolutely absurd for a very young turtle to be given the name Bootyyyshaker9000, even if it's an alias he might actually choose for himself in his teen years. I mean, I'm not entirely sure what parenting decisions I would put past someone like Lou Jitsu, but he won't be the one naming this little girl.

      Besides, it's entirely possible the albino turtle already has a name originating from her human life, and will tell others if and when she wants to. Her name could be something as random as Amaya or Candace or Chloe or Gabrielle or Hana or Harmony or Lilith or Lucindra or Lucretia or Miwa or Robyn or Sloane or Yumi. Some thoughts on a few of those:

      • The name Gabrielle has already appeared separately for different characters in Mirage TMNT and Archie TMNT, and it's based on the name of an archangel, which could be appropriate considering Raphael and Michelangelo are also named after archangels.
      • Yumi is the only preexisting character I can think of who was a biological daughter of one of the Turtles, albeit in a vision of a different life.

      Or if she has no name and they decide to adopt her, they might name her after someone they love, maybe someone who's not around anymore and they miss dearly, like Shen or Slash or Yoshi. Naming her Slash might piss off Hob, although it's also hard to imagine the Turtles caring any less about what Hob thinks than they do now.

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    • Slash would be kind of an odd name to give a little girl, though.

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    • Slash was an odd name to give Slash, honestly. But now it could have sentimental value because he was loved.

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    • This discussion should be about Venus if you guys want to talk about the new white little girl Turtle go make a new discussion page about her.

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    • That's the thing—she very well could be a new Venus. And on a broader level, this discussion has been about having a female turtle in a series. Even when Jennika mutated, she was discussed here as she seemed to replace the idea of Venus de Milo. But now that there are two female turtles in IDW, the discussion has returned here. Of course, if it becomes clear the albino turtle isn't another Venus, that discussion will probably branch off like Jennika's did.

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    • There is something that i noticed. That people barely use her real name, Mei Pieh Chi. Her original Chinese name given by Chung I. Maybe the new version could only use this name and not Venus.



      Darth0Gonzo: The little White albino female turtle could be a new Venus. New Venus can easily be a child and not an adult.

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    • Get rid of the Chinese concept on Venus and replace it maybe Korean!

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    • "..."

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    • Maybe.

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    • Mooncalfe answered. Albino turtle is not Venus.

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    • Here's a link to the Tweet where she confirmed that.

      https://twitter.com/mooncalfe1/status/1237041104513572866

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    • i really love venus more than jennika

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    • Ok....

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    • The albino turtle's name is Lita. If anyone wants to start a separate thread to discuss her, it might also be a good idea to link to it here.

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    • Lita. Short, but sweet. Not bad!

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    • Let's continue Lita's discussion at Thread:245578.

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    • Can do

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    • A FANDOM user
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