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  • If you have thoughts on Trans-Dimensional Turtles, write it here.

    My thoughts:

    The Turtles met their 1987 counterparts to stop Krang from causing chaos in their dimension.

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    • Well, I think its exciting they they're doing another TMNT crossover.  From the short clip of animated storyboard that was shown sometime around october of last year, it looks pretty good!  Nickelodeon got the original VA cast for the turtles AND Krang, they got liberties to the original TMNT soundtrack. In the few seconds the 80's turtles talked, they seemed pretty in character; they seem far less like parodies fo themselves like in the Turtles Forever movie, which is a nice change.  Also the EP seems like its going to be 2D animated, which means for the first time we'll see the 2012 turtles in 2D outside Half-Shell Heros.

      Overall I have a lot of hopes riding on this episode.  I'm a huge sucker for crossovers and this is what I've been wanting since season 2

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    • What characters do you think will appear in the episode. I am predicting these characters to appear:

      2012 universe:

      Leonardo, Donatello, Raphael, Michealangalo, April O Neil, Casey Jones, Fugitiod, Bishop, Queen, King, Rook, Kraang subprime, Kraang prime 

      1987 universe:

      Leonardo, Donatello, Raphael, Michealangalo, April O Neil, Casey Jones, Krang, Shredder, Bebop, Rocksteady

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    • Finally a cross-over with the 87 ninja turtles that will actually have their original voice actors!

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    • Not that I'm complaining or anything, but the 87 Turtles have cruddy timing as the 2012 Turtles are kinda busy trying to prevent the Triceratons from getting their hands on the Heart of Darkness. 

      Don't get me wrong, I'm quite excited to see this, but after seeing the IGN clip of them in New York (2012 universe), how exactly are the Turtles gonna get back in space, as they do have a mission to complete.

      Plus they are in the past New York, what happens if they run into past versions of themselves?


      I wonder if they'll run into either Shredder? Because I can see the 2012 Turtles pointing out that their Shredder is far more terrifying than the 87 Shredder.

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    • Or what about the 2012 Splinter? Is he wiser than the 1987 Splinter?

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    • Julian14bernardino wrote:
      Or what about the 2012 Splinter? Is he wiser than the 1987 Splinter?

      I'm not sure if the Turltes should run into him during this, it'll probably have more meaning if they reunite with him after the Triceratons' defeat.

      As for your question, maybe only a little bit; I mean he does have a more tragic origin story. The 1987 Splinter was expelled from his clan when Shredder tricked him; where as 2012 Splinter had his entire clan massacrued, his wife murdered, and his daughter stolen from him when she was only a baby.

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    • Iron117Prime wrote:
      Julian14bernardino wrote:
      Or what about the 2012 Splinter? Is he wiser than the 1987 Splinter?
      I'm not sure if the Turltes should run into him during this, it'll probably have more meaning if they reunite with him after the Triceratons' defeat.

      As for your question, maybe only a little bit; I mean he does have a more tragic origin story. The 1987 Splinter was expelled from his clan when Shredder tricked him; where as 2012 Splinter had his entire clan massacrued, his wife murdered, and his daughter stolen from him when she was only a baby.

      Oh was it the origin of Hamato Yoshi / Master Splinter?

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    • Probably won't run into themselves, but hey its TMNT! Mutant turtles, psychic robots, and Josh Peck still having an acting career-ANYTHING IS POSSIBLE!

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    • Cam Clarke (the voice of 80s Leonardo) told me about this new episode when I met him in October!

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    • Man the hype for this episode is off the charts! Everyone is so excited about seeing flat 2012 turtles and 1987 CGI turtles and all that other stuff. It's crazy!

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    • TMNTInsider wrote:
      Man the hype for this episode is off the charts! Everyone is so excited about seeing flat 2012 turtles and 1987 CGI turtles and all that other stuff. It's crazy!

      It has eight technically seven Ninja turtles in one episode-ALMOST all voiced by their original voice actors! Though if I were them, I would've cast Raphael's alternate actor as Raphael, but whatevs. ALSO-Pat Fraley! YAY!

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:
      TMNTInsider wrote:
      Man the hype for this episode is off the charts! Everyone is so excited about seeing flat 2012 turtles and 1987 CGI turtles and all that other stuff. It's crazy!
      It has eight technically seven Ninja turtles in one episode-ALMOST all voiced by their original voice actors! Though if I were them, I would've cast Raphael's alternate actor as Raphael, but whatevs. ALSO-Pat Fraley! YAY!

      Not to mention Krang Prime and Sub-sub Prime are supposed to be in it (from what I've heard), hopefully so will Bishop...and perhaps the Council. I know the first two are supposed to be in it at least.

      Anyhow...

      2012 Don: Stop mocking me! 1987 Raph: I wasn't mocking you! 2012 Don: You're still doing it! 1987 Raph: Look pal, I don't know who you think you-- 2012 Don: *leaps on top and starts catfight* That's it! I'm going to teach you such a lesson! *1987 Raph eventually pins 2012 Don down* 1987 Raph: Ha! We're tougher than we look pal! 2012 Don: Man, is there ANY kind of Raph out there I can beat?

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    • TMNTInsider wrote:
      Yoshimickster wrote:
      TMNTInsider wrote:
      Man the hype for this episode is off the charts! Everyone is so excited about seeing flat 2012 turtles and 1987 CGI turtles and all that other stuff. It's crazy!
      It has eight technically seven Ninja turtles in one episode-ALMOST all voiced by their original voice actors! Though if I were them, I would've cast Raphael's alternate actor as Raphael, but whatevs. ALSO-Pat Fraley! YAY!
      Not to mention Krang Prime and Sub-sub Prime are supposed to be in it (from what I've heard), hopefully so will Bishop...and perhaps the Council. I know the first two are supposed to be in it at least.

      Anyhow...

      2012 Don: Stop mocking me! 1987 Raph: I wasn't mocking you! 2012 Don: You're still doing it! 1987 Raph: Look pal, I don't know who you think you-- 2012 Don: *leaps on top and starts catfight* That's it! I'm going to teach you such a lesson! *1987 Raph eventually pins 2012 Don down* 1987 Raph: Ha! We're tougher than we look pal! 2012 Don: Man, is there ANY kind of Raph out there I can beat?

      I hope to high heaven your hypothetical dialogue becomes true.

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    • if the 1987 shredder appears on this special, who do you think will voice him?

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    • Adish2004 wrote:
      if the 1987 shredder appears on this special, who do you think will voice him?

      Jim Cummings was one of his alternates, that'd be fun!

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    • totally!

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    • And this is a long-shot reference, but if he could say "I AM THE TERROR THAT SLASHES IN THE NIGHT!" I'd die a happy clam.

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:
      Adish2004 wrote:
      if the 1987 shredder appears on this special, who do you think will voice him?
      Jim Cummings was one of his alternates, that'd be fun!

      Or the guy who voiced him in Seasons 8 and 10.

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    • Who else would like a huge Spider-Verse style arc where the turtles meet tons of different versions of themselves. The movie turtles, the 2003 turtles, the comic book turtles. It would be amazing.

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    • Amazoman wrote:
      Who else would like a huge Spider-Verse style arc where the turtles meet tons of different versions of themselves. The movie turtles, the 2003 turtles, the comic book turtles. It would be amazing.

      YOSH-turtles galore! I'm hoping for the 2003 turtles myself.

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    • I've been hoping for the 2003 turtles to show up in the 2012 series for 3 SEASONS! Can they at least get ONE STINKIN' CAMEO!?!

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:
      I've been hoping for the 2003 turtles to show up in the 2012 series for 3 SEASONS! Can they at least get ONE STINKIN' CAMEO!

      Sorry, it's a union thing. 4Kids's actors don't go anywhere outside 4Kids and their partner Funimation. Although some like Mike Sinterniklaas (Venture Bros. and Kappa Mikey) could get lucky.

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    • TMNTInsider wrote:

      Sorry, it's a union thing. 4Kids's actors don't go anywhere outside 4Kids and their partner Funimation. Although some like Mike Sinterniklaas (Venture Bros. and Kappa Mikey) could get lucky.

      Thank goodness for him at least, but SHELL I hate their stupid rules. 

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    • Sam Riegel also may return because he worked on many other projects that don't contain any other 4kids actors.

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    • 4Kids is defunct. It filed for bankruptcy in 2012, I believe, and has since emerged from bankruptcy as 4Licensing. It doesn't produce any of its own shows anymore.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      4Kids is defunct. It filed for bankruptcy in 2012, I believe, and has since emerged from bankruptcy as 4Licensing. It doesn't produce any of its own shows anymore.

      They sprang back actually, though considering that they PROBABLY don't have as much power of their actors as they used to. PROBABLY!

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    • cough, cough One Piece.

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    • Yeah I once read that James Avery even tried out for the 2003 Shredder. I don't know if he fit the mold for the Shredder they were looking for (probably not) or if it was that union thing I mentioned but pretty much all the VAs belonged to the 4Kids/Funimation union so, there you go.

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    • One Piece was never intended for young children to begin with. (Gee, does that complaint sound familiar? XD) But it's been getting better treatment on Toonami.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      One Piece was never intended for young children to begin with. (Gee, does that complaint sound familiar? XD) But it's been getting better treatment on Toonami.

      Yeah, but even for kids network dub standards it was pretty horrendous. Mostly how they white-faced one character for fear that he'd be too racist, not realizing that white-facing a character is twice as racist. It was the original Blue Popo. 

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    • Wow.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      One Piece was never intended for young children to begin with. (Gee, does that complaint sound familiar? XD) But it's been getting better treatment on Toonami.

      HA! Yeah I know. 4Kids was freaking out trying to censor the grusome, suggestive, and quite enjoyable aspects of One Piece. I blame both sides honestly. What was Toei Animation thinking going to 4Kids of all stations to dub their CLEARLY adult series. And how lazy are 4Kids executive that they sign on to deals without even giving it a slight pre-watch. Eh, people are so stupid man.

      But I'm at least glad One Piece has a more fitting home at Toonami. I've unfortunately way too behind on it to start binge wathing now. But I'm enjoying them as new ones come.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Wow.

      Right? Making Chocolove's name Jaco I can understand, that name was both ambiguously racist AND terrible, but white-facing...yeah there's no going back from that. 

      Also while mature , One Piece was not and shall never be an adult series. Its a shonen series, marketed for kids starting at Elementary through early High School. This however does not make it a children's series either, as their shows targeted directly to children...well they can be REALLY kiddy, like my lord. We westerners like to peg Japan as this nation of violence loving perverts, but in reality their standards and practices are just as strict if not stricter than ours. We as a continent are merely conditioned to believe Japanse animation is super hardcore, because the majority of Japanse animation marketed to the states is meant for teens or adults, which we are MASSIVLY lacking in the states, or if we're talking teen animation than zero. Seriously-WHAT HAPPENED TO GOOD TEEN SHOWS?! 

      So to recap, its more geared towards kids/teens, and the adults who were originally were those kids and teens, including ME-who has been a fan since about eighth grade baby! BUT-its a kids/teen series that can easily appeal to adults. Similar to SOME versions of TMNT, not all, some.

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:
      Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Wow.
      We as a continent are merely conditioned to believe Japanse animation is super hardcore, because the majority of Japanse animation marketed to the states is meant for teens or adults, which we are MASSIVLY lacking in the states, or if we're talking teen animation than zero. Seriously-WHAT HAPPENED TO GOOD TEEN SHOWS?! 

      I know, right?

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    • UltimateTitan6 wrote:

      I know, right?

      Adventure Time and Steven Universe can KINDA be thought as teen shows, but I don't know. The closest thing to a teen show we got right now is "Bravest Warriors" which because its an independently made series takes FOREVER to release the next season. And I REALLY want to hear Victor Carroli bellow his amazing pipes again.

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    • If there were an adult TMNT TV series, I can imagine how shocked some TMNT fans would be to see Azokk use his own Triceraton jaws to bite and decapitate a (relatively innocent) fellow prison inmate just to use his blood as an acid to help free himself and Mikey from their shackles so they can try to escape.

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    • How about we start a discussion where we will invent our own series?

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    • Eh, I wouldn't necessarily go that far. But I do wish Mirage TMNT would continue, MNT Gaiden would continue more, I could manage to get ahold of IDW TMNT #55, and the 2012 TV series didn't suck so bad anymore.

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    • It's not like that, just ideas for a new series.

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    • Yes, I understood you the first time. :)

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    • Trans-Dimensional Turtles is on early at WonderCon 2016! :)

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    • COWABUNGA! FAR OUT!!!

      VERY fun episode. The 87 turtles' personalities were pretty spot on. And we actually got to see Turtle Prime again. Seeing both Donnie's together in their actual animation was priceless. I guess it shows that the original Mirage turtles bring balance to all other versions. This was litterally the 2012 series' Turtles Forever WHY WAS THIS NOT HOUR LONG!?!

      And they FINALLY explained how Tiger Claw encountered them. The 2012 turtles traveled both back in time AND to another dimension SIMULTANEOUSLY. Man, my brain is starting to hurt.

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    • Yeah, that ending was kinda trippy. My head-canon is that because of Krang's constant transversal between Earth and his Dimension X, the meta-physical properties of Earth-1987-2D are ustable and chaotic, and those properties cross over to other realities if denizens from their cross over as well. 

      AS FOR KRANG BEING SUB-PRIME'S COUSIN-keep in mind during multiple flash backs in the original series, his species were also brain people in robot walkers similar to the Utrom. Chances are the reptilian body he supposedly had was created by his science via mutagen, and caused him to go insane and forget his true origin as an Utrom from Dimension X Earth2012-3D. 

      Either way it was a nice loving parody, especially how they made fun of how in the 87 show because of censors they couldn't use their freaking weapons!  And oddly enough, SUPRISINGLY dark and sad, like when Leo talked to past Splinter and flash-backed to an image of him being killed.  Only real criticism, is that yeah it DEFS should've been an hour long special. Felt a tad rushed it did.

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    • Huh, interesting.

      Yeah, after getting the impression that this will be a humorous, fun episode, I was quite shocked when I saw that flashback. it really surprised me and gave me chills that they redid that VERY dark scene in such a happy-go-lucky seeming episode. I guess just wanted to remind everyone what they're fighting for.

      YES it did feel rushed, and that is my only criticism as well. They implemented just about all the tools they needed from Turtles Forever, but jammed it into a half hour. This episode definitely needed more time. Maybe if it was an hour long, we could have gotten to see at least a cameo of the '03 turtles. And I was really hoping to see how '87 April and '03 Casey looked in 2012 series animation. (sigh) Oh well, next dimensional wormhole jump I guess...

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    • Honestly, I am VERY disappointed that the 2003 Turtles never showed up, nor was their dimension even mentioned. I am HOPING that they do somethingl ike this again in the future, but with the 2003 Turtles. But I loved this episode! Though, the 87 turtles honestly looked kinda horrifying in CG. 

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    • I didn't watch the episode. I find season 4 unwatchable in general, and I have a strong dislike for the 1987 TV series. That said, some of my friends did watch it...and I heard it was very inferior compared to Turtles Forever.

      Also, from what I understand, 1987 TV series fans by and large didn't like the 2003 TV series or the Mirage comics. (Or vice versa.) I originally liked how the 2012 TV series wasn't necessarily going to take sides but try to develop into its own good thing, but when it pulled closer to 1987 style and substance is when it got really, really bad.

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    • Honestly its a matter of opinion whether its better or worse than Turtles Forever, especially considering many fans of the 87 series felt it was a REALLY bad parody of the show. Most of the reasons for these feelings were because there was a scene where they CRY for no reason, the 87 turtles might've been jokes, but they were NOT cowards. In some ways its superior to TF, in some ways its inferior, mostly in how its WAY too short, like dear lord Nickelodeon, you make a 1 hour special for the stupid Imaginext toyline, but not for what should've been a perfect cross-over?! They not only brought back classic Kraang-BUT ALSO-mocked how terrible a villain he was! 

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote: I didn't watch the episode. I find season 4 unwatchable in general, and I have a strong dislike for the 1987 TV series. That said, some of my friends did watch it...and I heard it was very inferior compared to Turtles Forever.

      Also, from what I understand, 1987 TV series fans by and large didn't like the 2003 TV series or the Mirage comics. (Or vice versa.) I originally liked how the 2012 TV series wasn't necessarily going to take sides but try to develop into its own good thing, but when it pulled closer to 1987 style and substance is when it got really, really bad.

      Oh my God. Why bother commenting? I get it, you hate the show. That's fine, it's your opinion. But this is getting really old really fast.

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    • Damn, it's a shame this takes place BEFORE that #$% attacked my childhood heroes, i thought this takes place after it, it seems the 1987 TMNT are dead

      Also nice to see Mirage turtles in this episode, even thought they have no lines, it seems Nick couldn't afford hiring the 4kids actors, i would lol'd if Mirage Raph opens his mouth, other (1987 and 2012) turtles will be all like "#$% you sound like Goku" and 1987 Raph and 2012 Raph would be all like "no, shut up!"

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    • Zakor1138 wrote: Oh my God. Why bother commenting? I get it, you hate the show. That's fine, it's your opinion. But this is getting really old really fast.

      First of all, calm down. I'm allowed to comment, and I'm allowed to criticize. We're just not allowed to be uncivil. You're perfectly entitled not to like my criticism, but I'm still entitled to share it.

      Anyway, I'm still a fan of many other TMNT works, and Nickelodeon's show still dominates media attention even as my primary focus has shifted to other concurrent TMNT works. I'm also the editor primarily responsible for a few other sections of this wiki, such as Mutant Ninja Turtles Gaiden and Amazing Adventures, and The S and I seem to be the only editors who contribute anything of substance to the IDW TMNT articles, and I sporadically contribute to Mirage TMNT, Archie TMNT and Image TMNT articles as well.

      My interest in TMNT has weathered decades of both good and bad TMNT. It's not very respectful to imply that I'm simply not welcome here unless I like everything that's current. I like TMNT when it's good, and I want TMNT to become good again when it's bad. Right now, Nick TMNT has been very, very bad.

      Turtles Forever was right to mock and lampoon the 1987 TV series—that series was bad. Mirage never had any real fondness for it, and people who are primarily fans of adult TMNT works have largely regarded that series with indifference, disdain or embarrassment. When another TMNT work tries to become more like the style and substance of the 1987 TV series, it usually gets worse. This is true for Fast Forward, and for the 2012 TV series since season 3, and for the second TMNT film in 1991, and so forth.

      For me, when it comes to TMNT that tries to be a comic farce, I prefer something like Bakabakashii, which is never canonical to its main series anyway, and is thus free to openly make fun of itself without affecting the more serious storyline in any way. Mirage's occasional parody TMNT comics have usually not been canonical either—they're more something like this:

      Ruin reputations

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    • I should really be candid.

      I don't hate the 2012 TV series. I actually love the 2012 TV series. I just hate what it's become. I truly felt like the series had the potential to become the best version of TMNT, and that's saying a lot considering my background is as a Mirage TMNT fan and not as a 1987 TV series fan. So even though the current season is largely unwatchable, I still care about what happens, if mainly because of the enormous harm it's still doing to the story, the characters, and the TMNT brand and legacy. If I'd never cared about the show in the first place, I'd probably not be criticizing it as much as I do. I would love for the past year of episodes to have never happened, as if it was a doomed parallel universe, or even just someone's bad dream.

      Most of my TMNT fan friends and I are in agreement about one thing: The 2012 TV series has become much worse in direct proportion to its attempts to emulate the style and substance of the 1987 TV series. So when it pays homage to the 1987 series again and again and again like it's the greatest thing ever? That's actually pretty horrifying.

      And even my TMNT fan friends who now loathe the 2012 series still watched this episode, whether it was out of morbid curiosity, or to compare with Turtles Forever, or whatever.

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    • Gil, I love you, you have the right to opinion but for the love of Tengu- PLEASE- stop using that fat turtle image all the time! You are spamming it man, its gotten really repetitive. 

      And yeah the 1987 deserved to be mocked, but not in a way that ruined the characters. "Trans-dimensional Turtles" made fun of it WHILE celebrating it, whereas Turtles Forever simply highlighted the goofy aspects of them and downplayed the fact that they were legit heroes. Also-CRYING SCENE-turtles don't cry-TURTLES FIGHT WITH HONOR! Though the Mirage turtles were REALLY cool in it.

      Personally I blame that on the inconsistent nature of Earth 1987-2D, which happens.

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    • I must say, the Mirage turtles in TF was the pinnacle of badass. 😎

      Really wish they at least had some lines in this one. 😁

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    • Its weird, its like in a turtle cross over ONE turtle guest group can be portrayed accurately, while the other has mere facets of their personas. Let's hope in the next one they do more stuff.

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    • Yeah, this one was way too rushed.

      And I'm REALLY starting to get agitated that they are refusing to acknowledge the '03 series. That was almost like the best TMNT incarnation to me. They definitely should have been included in this it should have been an hour long.

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    • Yeah , here's hoping they'll be in the next cross over. Also I hope the turtles make fun of how ri-DICULOUSLY taller they are from the source material. Like dear lord, they were the size of college football players in 2K3.

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    • I KNOW, they were HUGE and looked like they were more muscle than turtle. The 87 turtles were like toddlers in size comparison. And considering that the 87 turtles were BIGGER than the 2012 turtles, I could only imagine how '03's dwarfs 2K12's.

      Guess that goes to show that 2012's turtles have the most accurate design when it comes to portraying them as teenagers.

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    • Have I really pasted that image that often? o.o ...I mean, I believe you, but... Okay. Hm, I guess I really should diversify my forum image selections.

      Anyway, my point was, Turtles Forever was right to mock the 1987 series because it didn't deserve to be celebrated. Even Mirage and its readers hated it, for reasons you're well aware of. It wasn't TMNT—it was an anti-TMNT—in so many ways the opposite of what actually made TMNT good.

      Murakami-Wolf-Swenson made it clear early on that they didn't want Eastman and Laird's input, and shut them out of the show's creative process very early on, and viewed them as an unwelcome adult comics nuisance—MWS made sure by design that Mirage TMNT would have as little influence on the show as possible. When you start out practically penniless, you can't really pick all the best business deals, and E&L may not have made all the wisest business decisions. But still...if you were someone who preferred Mirage TMNT, what got shown on the airwaves was really quite awful. And the fact that what was a mature adult character-driven action-drama became a frivolous cheap comedy just for little kids or adults nostalgic about being little kids, and that it was that formula that became the "TMNT" to a far larger number of people to this very day, is probably the franchise's greatest tragedy.

      It might have ultimately been better had MWS made the series they wanted with a completely different name and completely different characters, even if it meant TMNT would have never become as well-known, because the long-term damage MWS did to TMNT's brand and reputation was not unlike the long-term damage a certain kitschy 1960s sitcom did to Batman until the more mature Tim Burton, Animated Series and Christopher Nolan versions helped rehabilitate its reputation with adults (the Joel Schumacher lapses notwithstanding). Such an embarrassing chapter deserves either to be forgotten or to be mocked, but it does not deserve the power to continually hijack most new versions of TMNT that follow. When Tim Burton made the 1989 Batman film, he was under great pressure to pay homages to the 1960s series or at least give Adam West a cameo, but he stuck to his guns and refused, and what he made turned out to be exceptionally good. If only more TMNT TV shows and movies had done the same in ignoring the 1987 series.

      So, at the end of the day, I'm not against the 1987 turtles having an appearance or cameo, as long as they're something like a sight gag or a punchline. The Manhattan Project, Part 1 and Part 2 was acceptable in this regard because they remained a big-lipped alligator moment in what was otherwise a pretty good 2012 TV series season 2 episode.

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    • Ahh, I thought of a better example image, from Bakabakashii.

      Bakabakashii - 63

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    • Mmmmmmmmmmm better, but I think it woulda worked better if it was Leo or anyone else who said it, cos should Casey Jones REALLY mock anyone's fighting style for being unorthadox? Or having silly catch-phrases? Or silly speech patterns? He's a silly silly man, a KICK-SHELL silly man, but still silly. 

      Like the censorship line though, friggin' British people takin' away Mikey's nunchuks-WHAT WOMAN WOULD WANT HIM NOW?! How are swords less dangerous than Nunchuks-YOU MAKE NO SENSE BRITTAIN! Ah well, at least he get's that sweet Hyper Mutation!

      ALSO-changing the names of the characters for a slightly innacurate adaptation...yeah that never works, sounds good only on paper but it never works. Ever hear of the Dating Guy? Was originally supposed to be an adaptation of the web-comic "Least I could Do", but after the creator opted out they decided to make their own version of it and it...yeah it blew.

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    • MNT Gaiden Casey? He can have a handful of hammy moments, but he's actually become a responsible husband and father with a real day job.

      To be honest, I don't really care if MWS made anything that succeeded or not. They could have gone under in 1987 for all I care. But they were the last people who should have that kind of power with the TMNT brand.

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    • By the way, MWS took away Michelangelo's nunchaku because real world New York City actually banned them at the time, and MWS didn't want their cartoon protagonists to appear to be committing crimes by carrying banned weapons.

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    • Another Bakabakashii parody with a 1987 series cameo character:

      Bakabakashii - 57

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    • Does he say Goongola at least once? Cos if not I'm leaving, its bad enough the 87 series forgot to keep what was simultaneously the dumbest and greatest catchphrase of all time.

      Really? I knew I thought it was Brittain-NO-wait I'm thinking about how they called it "Teenage Mutant Hero Turtles".

      And honestly that proves my point that it wasn't all their fault, they were under a lot of pressure by the network, the toy company, to make the show "for kids". Also its PRETTY clear they hated shilling for a toyline, considering a lot of the dumber vehicles and playsets that made it into the show were destroyed in their introductory episode. They just wanted to make the show they wanted, they weren't trying to hurt the franchise, it was just a huge cluster of censorship and branding. 

      And HA-Raphael will never find love, will he? Except for Archie Raph, dude get's all the furry babes.

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    • MNTG Casey probably did say Goongala once or twice—I wasn't paying attention to that.

      2K12 Raph found a turbulent psychotic love in season 2. ._. There was sooooooooooo much coded-gay in those episodes. Granted, most of it was from Slash, but Raph had his moments too.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      MNTG Casey probably did say Goongala once or twice—I wasn't paying attention to that.

      HUZZAH-that's all I need.

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    • Aren't you ever going to read it someday?

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Aren't you ever going to read it someday?

      After I rewatch all of 2K3 and re-read all of volumes 1,2, and 4 of the Mirage comics yes. I've been told I can skip volume 3.

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    • You don't have to skip volume 3. It's just not canonical to Mirage, though it branches off from volume 2's continuity. It's actually not necessarily a bad idea to read it—it just relies heavily on Savage Dragon's universe.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      You don't have to skip volume 3. It's just not canonical to Mirage, though it branches off from volume 2's continuity. It's actually not necessarily a bad idea to read it—it just relies heavily on Savage Dragon's universe.

      Well then there's a whole can of worms right there as well, I gotta read up all of Savage Dragon in order for reference(there's just no other way)! And part of that involves reading Freak Force and...yeah I saw an AT4W review that did NOT give me confidence. Your thoughts though?

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    • You don't have to read Savage Dragon either. I didn't read Savage Dragon. Volume 3 doesn't necessarily do a continuity lockout anyway. It just involves some characters and settings that are otherwise unfamiliar to TMNT. It immerses TMNT into Savage Dragon's universe, but you aren't necessarily super-confused by not being aware of it...or something. Or I suspect that's the case, since I didn't read Savage Dragon. XD

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    • The reason I said that is because I cant handle constant negativity. It mentally drains me and makes me lose interest in interacting with the franchise. The blogs, comments, all make me want to stop coming back to this wiki. I actually left for a while because I saw too much negativity, now I come back and the first thing I saw was your blog that was yet another criticism of the show that I enjoy.

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    • Zakor1138: Well, I really don't know what to tell you, then.

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    • My thoughts:

      Fugitoid: "Well, that's not good!" Thank you Captain Obvious XD 

      The animation is killer!!!!!!

      "Gross Man-baby body" LOL

      "I'm the order guy!" LOL

      Master Splinter!!!!!! I'm crying like an idiot!!!! And the stabbing flashback will give me nightmares!

      MEGAN FOX REFERENCE DUDES I CAN'T HANDLE IT!!!!!

      Omg the mirage comics!!! The whole comic book movement was awesome!

      And the mix of the other episode with the giant worm and Tigerclaw!!!!!

      Freakin loved this episode!!

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    • Was there a reference to Megan Fox's Golden Raspberry Award for Worst Supporting Actress? :)

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    • Lol BURN! Even I have to chuckle at that one. XD

      Naw, naw. Kraang Sub-Prime just showed up and Mikey was like "Kraang Sub-Prime?" And Sub-Prime did a feminine flex in his Irma droid body and said "No, Megan Fox. Oh I forgot, you're the dumb one."

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Was there a reference to Megan Fox's Golden Raspberry Award for Worst Supporting Actress? :)

      No, but you could TELL they wanted to.

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    • Zakor1138:

      I've given your comment more thought.

      I've been a fan of TMNT for more than a quarter century. I've been in various fandoms over my life. And one long hard lesson I've learnt is that, even in the best of times, fandoms are a détente—many different opinions in diametrically opposed disagreement that have somehow chosen to peacefully coexist. Fandoms can often be beset by these divisions, which may never fully go away.

      If you wanted a community of fans united in common broad interest, this could be your place. But if you wanted a community of fans united in common likes, you were likely going to find some of it here, but you were never going to be able to expect that from everyone, even among the otherwise civil and well-behaved. The best you could hope for is a tight circle of similarly-minded friends, but even then there can be no long-term guarantee you'll always like the same things. Debate and disallusionment are both inevitable in fandoms, at least for some of their fans.

      I once stumbled over a humorous image on one of the various tropes wikis, which brilliantly highlights and lampoons this kind of discord that tends to arise within fandoms:

      Fan dumb

      It's sometimes called "fan dumb," but the truth is that fans can have very complicated, personal reasons for having the likes and opinions they do. As long as fans can still find a way to disagree calmly and civilly, people can find a way to live with this.

      I've been in fandoms with much more bitter divisions, where one side vs. another side boiled over as a holy war. The Star Fox fandom periodically erupted into one of those over the subject of Krystal. Fans could become nasty, and entire online communities could implode from fans being unwilling to coexist peacefully in the same place. One should be thankful that Turtlepedia isn't anywhere near that level of chaos. Polite debate and respectful disagreement in the face of negative opinions are really some of the better results to hope for in a fan community.

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    • Yoshimickster wrote:

      Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Was there a reference to Megan Fox's Golden Raspberry Award for Worst Supporting Actress? :)

      No, but you could TELL they wanted to.

      Megan Fox is such a poor casting choice. In my mind, if it were still the 1990s, my ideal pick for casting April O'Neil would have been Gina Torres. I mean, she's older now, but she could still play a middle-aged mom April in a film with turtles who are now in their 30s or 40s.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:

      Megan Fox is such a poor casting choice. In my mind, if it were still the 1990s, my ideal pick for casting April O'Neil would have been Gina Torres. I mean, she's older now, but she could still play a middle-aged mom April in a film with turtles who are now in their 30s or 40s.

      Have her perm her hair up, and you got yourself a deal!

      Seriously, WAS April black in the comics? She had that whole racial ambiguity thing going on, that you surprisingly see more in Japanese cartoons than western ones. 

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    • April started out ambiguous in the comics.

      Peroxide

      She was based on a woman Kevin Eastman once dated who had an ethnically mixed background. In the early comic sometimes she looked black Latina. And Gina Torres is Cuban American. :) Such an April could easily be African American and Latino American in addition to Irish American.

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    • By the way, have you noticed that we can never stay on topic? XD

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    • Gilgameshkun

      I was having a hard home life, that's all. Once I'm having a hard time, I start lashing out, even though I wouldn't normally. So I apologize. But really? You don't like the Adam West Batman either? lol

      Anyhow, this special mocks the idea of destroying the prime universe, because that would destroy all other realities. Seriously, Shredder's plan in Turtles Forever was not smart.

      Also, RETCON! 80's Krang comes from the 2K12 'verse Dimension X.

      Finally, this episode mocks the 87 series, but is much more faithful to it. Turtles Forever felt like it was mean-spirited and over-exaggerated the Turtles personalities.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      April started out ambiguous in the comics.

      Peroxide

      She was based on a woman Kevin Eastman once dated who had an ethnically mixed background. In the early comic sometimes she looked black Latina. And Gina Torres is Cuban American. :) Such an April could easily be African American and Latino American in addition to Irish American.

      As much as I love those comics, their faces looked WEIRD at times. Did the turtles have TMJ during the first few issues? ALSO-is it it me or does April's eyes look more angry than sympathetic? The face is the right "Ooh" shape, but the eyes could be more squinty in my opinion. Oddly enough though, still three good panels. But ultimately their strengths lie in making GLORIOUS New York city scapes.

      Zakor1138 wrote: Gilgameshkun

      I was having a hard home life, that's all. Once I'm having a hard time, I start lashing out, even though I wouldn't normally. So I apologize. But really? You don't like the Adam West Batman either? lol

      Anyhow, this special mocks the idea of destroying the prime universe, because that would destroy all other realities. Seriously, Shredder's plan in Turtles Forever was not smart.

      Also, RETCON! 80's Krang comes from the 2K12 'verse Dimension X.

      Finally, this episode mocks the 87 series, but is much more faithful to it. Turtles Forever felt like it was mean-spirited and over-exaggerated the Turtles personalities.

      Agreed on Ch'rell's plan, though I'd probably go mad too if I knew the multiverse was literally LITTERED with different versions of my arch-enemies. And as for why Krang was redoing a plan...yeah this was probably him during season 4-onwards, when after several crushing defeats from 4 athletic teenagers his mind went to mush.

      Either that or the unstable meta-particles of Earth 1987-2D messed with Sub-Prime's memories to make him THINK he was his cousin...or messed with the time space continuum in such a bizarre way that he BECAME Sub-Prime's cousin in this episode.

      Agreed, there were some loving digs in there like how they instinctually knew to save April, and Raph breaking the fourth wall, but that crying scene UGH! Personally I believe that scene was an effect of Ch'rell damaging the space time continuum, or maybe the inconsistency of Earth 1987's meta-particles made their personalities AND voices sound completely different.

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    • If anything, the 87 Turtles got character development in this episode. Leo and Raph actually used their weapons in the end!

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    • Well, I loved this episode. I loved all the references to the old cartoon. My favorite part was when Leo '87 was about to say Turtle Power for the third time, only for Leo 2012 to have fire in his eyes! I don't know about you, but I found that funny.

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    • Zakor1138:

      No, I don't like Adam West's Batman. Batman, like TMNT, should be a dark serious character-driven action-drama.

      But TMNT itself should also be family-oriented (not to be confused with family-friendly) with deep emotional attachments between family members and a close circle of family-like friends, where plenty of slice-of-life moments are thrown in. But if characters can't take enough things seriously and it's like they're always partying, then that's not family life, that's spring break that never ends. Good life drama should have a mixture of fascinating and mundane, and a mixture of serious, occasionally humorous, often gritty, occasionally uncomfortable, and even the occasional surgical use of the boring just to keep it feeling more real and relatable.

      And I don't mean just lounging around someone's home/lair. They were ninja, after all, and that involved daily intensive training both in their home and on rooftops. And sometimes a whole lot of "nothing" happened, but there was actually a lot of character-building going on in the spaces between the "nothing." There often wasn't a conspicuously convenient shiny villain or bizarre characters to interrupt these noir moments, either. Sometimes life seemed to slow down to a crawl, and they had to actually live their lives for a little while. And Mikey didn't always have something funny to say or goofy to do, either, which made his actual silly moments a little more charming, I think.

      The 1987 series downplayed all elements of family and wasn't even allowed to mention they were a family, and it ultimately came across as a mostly fake and unserious college dorm environment with Splinter as dorm mother. One of my biggest complaints about the 2012 series is that it started out having a much better family narrative, but it gradually came to more resemble the fake 1987 environment, apparently by popular demand of fans primarily familiar with the 1987 series, and it's the exact opposite of what I like in a TMNT story. It went from being good TMNT to being just another anti-TMNT like 1987 had been.

      I think one of the best examples of a good TMNT story is City at War. Not the 2003 TV series version which lasted all of two or three episodes. I mean the R-rated Mirage version, which was 13 issues long and lasted over a year. That has tons of decent slice-of-life moments, along with some crucibles that pushed characters' boundaries and made them develop more.

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    • In terms of how the 2012 TV series used to be good, I'd say the best stories were episodes like The Alien Agenda, Karai's Vendetta and Slash and Destroy, with plenty of great moments in other episodes as well. They had a dose of the ordinary, a dose of the funny ("Look, Leo, now the Kraang are on our side!"), a dose of the uncomfortable ("Turtle soup." "...Karai."), some crucible moments (pretty much all of Slash and Destroy), and some good family moments (Splinter comforting Raphael after Slash's loss). Happy endings were never delivered on a silver platter, nor were the endings always necessarily happy. But life isn't all saccharine desserts—life is mostly nutritious food, and I like TMNT that satisfies the adult palate for drama. And, in the words of Kirby, "Life at best is bitter sweet."

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    • Yoshimickster: No one ever said Kevin Eastman was the best comics artist when it came to drawing people. :) He had his strengths, but his art was usually adequate enough to tell a good story. Kevin's replacement Jim Lawson also was never that fabulous at drawing people, but his art could still narrate well enough. When it comes to really good Mirage TMNT artists, I always preferred Peter Laird and Eric Talbot.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote: Zakor1138:

      No, I don't like Adam West's Batman. Batman, like TMNT, should be a dark serious character-driven action-drama.

      Hard disagree with ya there hombre, Batman should be a dark serious character OR a silly fun superhero. Which we used to HAVE when the DC multiverse was made specifically so fans could enjoy different interpretations of different characters, BUT NOW every single universe just looks like a stupid exact copy in terms of tone. So much so, that the bulk of fans are kinda sick of dark Batman. What trailer got more rave reactions of joy, Batman V Superman, or the Lego Batman movie? The people have spoken, MAKE BATMAN BEATBOX!

      BUT-we may fall into the same problem with gritty Batman, where he became too much of the norm for too long that he out-stayed his welcome. The same happened with silly Silver Age Batman, whenever something is popular in superhero stories the bigwigs milk it until its not only dry, but when the cow has died from years of malnourishment. DC should run their properties like a dairy, don't place all the pressure on one cow, have a BUNCH of cows and milk them all equally.

      Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Yoshimickster: No one ever said Kevin Eastman was the best comics artist when it came to drawing people. :) He had his strengths, but his art was usually adequate enough to tell a good story. Kevin's replacement Jim Lawson also was never that fabulous at drawing people, but his art could still narrate well enough. When it comes to really good Mirage TMNT artists, I always preferred Peter Laird and Eric Talbot.


      True, true, Pete is the man.

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    • Like I said, I mainly appreciate TMNT comedy series that make fun of a companion main series without actually affecting its canon. I'm not really all that much of a Batman fan—I just use it as an analogy when discussing TMNT. All the friends I have who do like Batman, have nothing but disdain for the Adam West version and all the fruits thereof, and believe Batman storylines must necessarily remain dark. What TMNT and Batman do have in common is that their common theme of darkness, in multiple senses—noir characters, grittiness of setting, and stealth in the shadows. If primary TMNT stories can't maintain a dark and/or bittersweet drama narrative, they're just not TMNT. It's because the 1987 series eschews this entirely that makes it an anti-TMNT.

      Also, Chris Allan has been a good TMNT artist too. He illustrated for both Archie and Mirage. What's interesting about his style is that it adapted the 1987 series, and darkened and matured it for Archie Comics so that adult comics readers could take it seriously reworked as an alternate universe—the 1987 series itself having been such adult-repellent to practically everyone who wasn't a fan of it as a child.

      See, one area that I'm willing to give the 1987 series credit, was that its very first art style in the first two episodes or so wasn't that terrible, even if the story and characters weren't that good. It was done by anime studio Toei Animation (the same studio that made Dragon Ball Z), and some of the character art had decent lines even though Murakami-Wolf-Swenson only ordered low frame counts, which made the animations themselves look limited, repetitive and choppy. MWS would eventually go through a revolving door of cheap lowest-bidder animation studios, but Toei was good at what they did.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      Like I said, I mainly appreciate TMNT comedy series that make fun of a companion main series without actually affecting its canon. I'm not really all that much of a Batman fan—I just use it as an analogy when discussing TMNT. All the friends I have who do like Batman, have nothing but disdain for the Adam West version and all the fruits thereof, and believe Batman storylines must necessarily remain dark. What TMNT and Batman do have in common is that their common theme of darkness, in multiple senses—noir characters, grittiness of setting, and stealth in the shadows. If primary TMNT stories can't maintain a dark and/or bittersweet drama narrative, they're just not TMNT. It's because the 1987 series eschews this entirely that makes it an anti-TMNT.

      Also, Chris Allan has been a good TMNT artist too. He illustrated for both Archie and Mirage. What's interesting about his style is that it adapted the 1987 series, and darkened and matured it for Archie Comics so that adult comics readers could take it seriously reworked as an alternate universe—the 1987 series itself having been such adult-repellent to practically everyone who wasn't a fan of it as a child.

      See, one area that I'm willing to give the 1987 series credit, was that its very first art style in the first two episodes or so wasn't that terrible, even if the story and characters weren't that good. It was done by anime studio Toei Animation (the same studio that made Dragon Ball Z), and some of the character art had decent lines even though Murakami-Wolf-Swenson only ordered low frame counts, which made the animations themselves look limited, repetitive and choppy. MWS would eventually go through a revolving door of cheap lowest-bidder animation studios, but Toei was good at what they did.

      I really debate that the 87 series is an anti-TMNT because its not as dark, as while goofy its still a revenge story between the Hamato clan and the Foot(even though censors wouldn't let them call them a family, forcing the writers to sneak words like "Our big brothers will get you!" in during the filler episodes).

      But see, maybe having a defined version of a metaseries ends up working against it rather than helping it. What I like about Batman and TMNT, is that there are a million ways to work with these characters and world, and as long as we keep the bare-bones to their origins and characters they can good series. The real problem with the 87 series is not that its a silly version of a serious story, but that the powers that be didn't advertise that there was a darker source material, like how in Japan they would make softer versions of their more violent series and advertise "HEY-there's a comic version that's TEN times more hardcore!" The problem was that they only marketed to one facet of the fan-base, rather than the whole. This is also why Young Justice got cancelled, because they refused to market to the girl audience...or boy audience, as the toy sales were non-existent due to lack of marketing.

      Yup, when Toei puts the time in they can make something good...wish they took the time with the original DBZ animation because sholy SHELL was it bad. It was so bad at times, even worse than Turtlemation! They ACTUALLY made a cleaned up version of it with Dragon Ball Z Kai years later.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote: Zakor1138:

      No, I don't like Adam West's Batman. Batman, like TMNT, should be a dark serious character-driven action-drama.

      Just a while ago you said you never read DC Comics! Just because you have friends who dislike the Adam West Batman stuff, doesn't mean they represent the most hardcore of Batman fans. Yes, we love the dark stuff, but we occasionally enjoy some of the more silly stuff if they're done right.

      Retconning silly stories into canon by saying they were a hallucination or making them fit with the more serious modern tone. The Batmen of All-Nations was a ridiculous idea (every country has their own Batman). They made parts of it canon and made it fit in modern continuity. Ace the Bat-Hound, a silly character created in the pre-Crisis age of DC, has been brought back and the fans accept him no problem. (He even briefly had the mask from the old comics)

      Finally, Batman '66 is still ongoing with new comics based on the series. In this day and age, how many Batman fans are going to remember that old show from before they were even born? All are as completely valid as the dark avenger.

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    • I don't read DC Comics. I did appreciate Batman: The Animated Series and Mask of the Phantasm, as well as the Christopher Nolan films. I wasn't a huge fan, but I respected them. I saw Batman '66 now and then as a teenager because it ran as daily reruns on television. It was completely ridiculous, and I was never fond of it. All my friends who do read DC Comics and respect darker Batman, inform me that Batman at its roots was a dark action-drama, and that it was nothing like Batman '66, but more like the darker Batman screen works. My respect for it went up a little.

      Anyway, again, I used Batman as an analogy. Its virtues are not identical to TMNT, which I have consumed and been a fan of in much greater depth. My gripe is, TMNT on screen is never allowed to remain dark and serious at its core, and keeps being sabotaged and changed into something more resembling the 1987 series in style and substance, and that's the exact opposite of the TMNT I appreciate and respect.

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    • Nah see, the Batman THEY grew up with was a dark action drama. Most likely late silver age stuff, Frank Miller, yadda yadda. Batman's early adventures were a lot more PULP than dramatic, murder mysteries yes but rather campy ones. Also they'd write EVERY action Batman did, like in old Radio Shows where it worked because that medium didn't have a visual aspect, but HERE it comes off unnecessary and awkward. And for a while Campy Batman was the norm, until Marvel came around and introduced character development to the medium, FORCING Batman and the rest of DC comics to have real character driven arcs than heroic driven ones. And let me ask you , do you think there weren't people who complained about lack of camp and got darker? Of COURSE there were, and had the same arguments as you "Its not my Batman". 

      And dude, there's a LOT worse with the new movies than them mimicing the 87 show. Honestly they're kinda terrible in their own right. 

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    • I guess the complaint with something being "my TMNT" vs. "not my TMNT," is that I'm not quite as affected when a version of TMNT is bad to begin with. The 1987 series was annoying in the way it affected TMNT's reputation, but what happened on the show itself didn't affect me quite as much while it was happening because I had really no investment in the direction of its plot, etc. When it was never great to begin with, you were never a fan, and it can't disappoint you.

      That's not the case with the 2012 series, which started out as something I really liked and could get into as a Mirage-style TMNT fan, but it turned into something really bad like the 1987 series at the expense of its previous depth, continuity, seriousness and attention to detail.

      As I've told you personally before, in the past year, I've been under an extraordinary amount of stress as a TMNT fan. Every time I think the 2012 series I loved can't get any worse than it already has, it manages to find a way to exceed my worst expectations. How can a show that was once so fantastic, become so painfully awful? It's a fan's nightmare, and I'm living it.

      I haven't seen the 2014 film. My brother saw it, and specifically warned me never to watch it because it's just so terrible. And he was the one who introduced me to TMNT comics in the first place. So I decided to take a pass on it.

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    • My thoughts on the crossover are what I thought it'd be. A little get-together that'd be a wasted opportunity. Yeah, it was nice having the original voices, but Donatello's really doesn't fit with how it sounds in this. It is nice to see the different art styles. Unfortunately the animation in the original cartoon's universe is REALLY choppy and Krang...kinda doesn't look right. It looks like a parody of the original cartoon rather than the original cartoon. And that's not even getting into the story problems. I know it's just fanservice is all, but with how it's trying to act like the whole dimension-thingy is being sorta consistent from Turtles Forever it just falls flat on its face. Even if Krang was based off the Utroms, he is NOT one in the original. He LOST his body when he was banished. And he was a tyrant. And his Dimension X was COMPLETELY different from the new cartoon's one. I know I'm looking too far into it, but it's just basic stuff that pops into my head as I'm watching it that kinda brings the thing down. Also no Shredder.

      ...and shouldn't at least ONE of the two sets of Turtles remember each other between the Mirage and original cartoon Turtles? On the other hand, if this is their first time meeting then they should remember each other in Turtles Forever.

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    • Yes, my friends who watched this episode, watched it to compare it to Turtles Forever, and they had similar criticisms. But they were also largely already expecting it to be bad anyway, and watched mainly out of a morbid fascination.

      At this rate, I may never see this episode. And I say that with genuine sorrow, because I keep trying to hold out a ray of hope that this series will somehow get good again. I was a bigger fan of this show than any of my other fan friends, and they know how much it means to me. But each time they check back in on the show, they tell me how it's gotten even worse, with the most hyped-up episodes falling flattest of all, as if Nick's idea of the best TMNT ever is being tailored to drive us away as much as possible.

      At this point, it's fair to say we feel a strong alienation from this series. The past several months, I've been feeling a lot like Mikey here:

      Why are you doing this pizza.gif
      Why are you doing this pizza
      Michelangelo: Why are you doing this, pizza? I've always loved you!

      ...and I've been annoying the hell out of most everyone else on the wiki as a result, which I very much regret. This really hasn't been an easy time for me as a TMNT fan, especially since I'm still an active Turtlepedia editor and I maintain articles for other versions of TMNT besides this show. Seeing or hearing every day that this show steadfastly refuses to appeal to us again, has been pretty painful, even as other versions of TMNT most Turtlepedia users never discuss (IDW TMNT, MNT Gaiden, etc.) have actually been really good lately. I've tried before to start threads discussing IDW, etc., but they have usually been met with the deafening silence of crickets. Where are all the other TMNT fans and their desire to help document this stuff? I've been doing most of it by myself. :(

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    • Edward18517 wrote:

      My thoughts on the crossover are what I thought it'd be. A little get-together that'd be a wasted opportunity. Yeah, it was nice having the original voices, but Donatello's really doesn't fit with how it sounds in this. It is nice to see the different art styles. Unfortunately the animation in the original cartoon's universe is REALLY choppy and Krang...kinda doesn't look right. It looks like a parody of the original cartoon rather than the original cartoon. And that's not even getting into the story problems. I know it's just fanservice is all, but with how it's trying to act like the whole dimension-thingy is being sorta consistent from Turtles Forever it just falls flat on its face. Even if Krang was based off the Utroms, he is NOT one in the original. He LOST his body when he was banished. And he was a tyrant. And his Dimension X was COMPLETELY different from the new cartoon's one. I know I'm looking too far into it, but it's just basic stuff that pops into my head as I'm watching it that kinda brings the thing down. Also no Shredder.

      ...and shouldn't at least ONE of the two sets of Turtles remember each other between the Mirage and original cartoon Turtles? On the other hand, if this is their first time meeting then they should remember each other in Turtles Forever.

      The animation in the '80s universe is choppy to poke fun at how bad some of the old animation was in episodes.  Plus, there will never be an exact match since 2D animation is digitally created now vs. cel-based animation.

      As for the inconsitencies in Krang's backstory, you don't have to take it canonical to the old series (which was somewhat loose with continuitt anyway) but just accept it for this episode.

      The reason for the "no Shredder" should be fairly obvious, but in case it isn't, let me spell it out. You can't have a "nostaglia" Shredder in an episode when the voice actor who played him for a large part of the 80's series is no longer with us.

      Finally, it's fairly clear that "Turtles Forever" didn't happen in this version of TMNT.  Think of this episode as a replacement for that movie.

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    • It's okay if Turtles Forever didn't happen in this continuity. I prefer to think that everything in this series since partway through season 3 didn't even happen anyway. :) I'm largely waiting/hoping for the show to regain its sanity and restore a stronger depth and continuity. It hasn't yet, and it may never at this rate, but I gotta hope.

      And yes, James Avery had a very distinctive voice that was never easy to recast without sounding really wrong. I don't like the 80s series, but I respected him as both a live actor and a voice actor.

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    • Gilgameshkun wrote:
      It's okay if Turtles Forever didn't happen in this continuity. I prefer to think that everything in this series since partway through season 3 didn't even happen anyway. :) I'm largely waiting/hoping for the show to regain its sanity and restore a stronger depth and continuity. It hasn't yet, and it may never at this rate, but I gotta hope.

      And yes, James Avery had a very distinctive voice that was never easy to recast without sounding really wrong. I don't like the 80s series, but I respected him as both a live actor and a voice actor.

      True, but Jim Cummings is still with us! Who is the cheese grate that flaps in the night?!

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    • Thanks for not taking offense at my complaints. As a 2K12 fan, I've been in pain.

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    • Ya know, I think I can forgive the whole prime universe thing being used again because I loved turtles forever and there's some good fridge brilliance in it (they went to when the mirage turtles first started, so if you destroyed it then the turtles wouldn't be able to continue on) but I absouloutely DESPISED the idea that Krang was part of the Kraang, the Kraang only PARTLY look like the Krang of the old series, Krang may have had "contemporaries" who looked like brains in jars. But that can easily be explained by him not being the only being who was disembodied. His soldiers were surprised to see him as a brain and this Krang wanted to destroy all the dimensions?WHEN IN TURTLES FOREVER HE TRIED STOPPING CHRELL FROM DOING JUST THAT?!if you liked it, then you are perfectly free to enjoy what you want watch what you want and do what you want...if it isn't illegal, but I just do NOT like this episode, wouldn't it be better if they had...I don't know. 12 lord dregg team up with the old one? And not completely ruin 87 Krang?

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    • Ty-Dawg: What do you mean by "prime universe"?

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    • He means Mirage...

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    • Ahh, okay. :) I've encountered enough TMNT fans who don't seem fully aware the Mirage universe even exists, so it comes off as ambiguous. I have similar experiences with Star Fox fans who don't always know there were any games before Star Fox 64.

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    • Honestly the other two bombs were both unneccasary, and neccasary at the same time. ON THE ONE HAND-destroying the Turtle-Prime will destroy all other realities in the turtleverse, ON THE OTHER HAND-the other two bombs worked as a pretty good distraction! Though...he probably didn't know that, being the loony that is Krang.

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    • I've got a headcanon that fixes everything: this is an alternate version of the actual 87 show and the Krang we see in this episode is not the Krang from turtles forever and the 87 show. Bam yay I'm happy now
      
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    • Ty-Dawg: Don't start your comment lines with a space. It kinda messes them up.

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    • My head-canon is that the turtles, Shredder, and Kragn from the 87 universe have trace ammounts of Deridium in their blood stream, which causes them to warp reality from subtl effects like switching bandanas, to insane effects like giant bananas coming out of no-where, or Krang being Knight's cousin even though he was supposed to be a different species! OR-maybe he forgot his true origins because...well Krang IS nuts.

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    • The animation in the '80s universe is choppy to poke fun at how bad some of the old animation was in episodes. Plus, there will never be an exact match since 2D animation is digitally created now vs. cel-based animation.

      That's part of the problem for me. That it was "deliberately" making fun of it. I know Forever did it, but that was in the acting department (not to mention the fact that they really did start getting that goofy later on). When it came to animation it was on par with, and even better a lot of times, than the "Neutrinos" episode of the original cartoon. They moved and animated like the Turtles. The ones in this special do not, and it kinda throws me off. I'd rather there not be jabs at all towards the original in many cases, but if there are going to be I prefer it to be something about how goofy it got story/character wise rather than something that isn't that pleasant to look at.

      As for the inconsitencies in Krang's backstory, you don't have to take it canonical to the old series (which was somewhat loose with continuitt anyway) but just accept it for this episode.

      Like I said, it's obviously just an excuse plot for the episode, and it wasn't that intrusive. BUTTTT my mind still kept trying to tap me on the shoulder with how much the episode was screwing up. It was just annoying enough inconsistencies to make it start get annoying for me, especially after how amazingly Forever handled the multiverse situation.

      The reason for the "no Shredder" should be fairly obvious, but in case it isn't, let me spell it out. You can't have a "nostaglia" Shredder in an episode when the voice actor who played him for a large part of the 80's series is no longer with us.

      That's obviously the explanation, but even then, Krang just doesn't work that well, ESPECIALLY in a scenario where they're kinda messing up what he is, without his partner for me. At the least you could get the Forever voice actor.

      Finally, it's fairly clear that "Turtles Forever" didn't happen in this version of TMNT. Think of this episode as a replacement for that movie.

      That sounds like complete and utter blasphemy to me.

      Now I'm fully behind the "alternate 80s cartoon" idea, but this episode is clearly trying to work off the 80s cartoon itself, which just doesn't jell with me. Hence my criticism.

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    • Edward18517 wrote:
      The animation in the '80s universe is choppy to poke fun at how bad some of the old animation was in episodes. Plus, there will never be an exact match since 2D animation is digitally created now vs. cel-based animation.That's part of the problem for me. That it was "deliberately" making fun of it. I know Forever did it, but that was in the acting department (not to mention the fact that they really did start getting that goofy later on). When it came to animation it was on par with, and even better a lot of times, than the "Neutrinos" episode of the original cartoon. They moved and animated like the Turtles. The ones in this special do not, and it kinda throws me off. I'd rather there not be jabs at all towards the original in many cases, but if there are going to be I prefer it to be something about how goofy it got story/character wise rather than something that isn't that pleasant to look at.

      As for the inconsitencies in Krang's backstory, you don't have to take it canonical to the old series (which was somewhat loose with continuitt anyway) but just accept it for this episode.


      Like I said, it's obviously just an excuse plot for the episode, and it wasn't that intrusive. BUTTTT my mind still kept trying to tap me on the shoulder with how much the episode was screwing up. It was just annoying enough inconsistencies to make it start get annoying for me, especially after how amazingly Forever handled the multiverse situation.

      The reason for the "no Shredder" should be fairly obvious, but in case it isn't, let me spell it out. You can't have a "nostaglia" Shredder in an episode when the voice actor who played him for a large part of the 80's series is no longer with us.

      That's obviously the explanation, but even then, Krang just doesn't work that well, ESPECIALLY in a scenario where they're kinda messing up what he is, without his partner for me. At the least you could get the Forever voice actor.

      Finally, it's fairly clear that "Turtles Forever" didn't happen in this version of TMNT. Think of this episode as a replacement for that movie.

      That sounds like complete and utter blasphemy to me.

      Now I'm fully behind the "alternate 80s cartoon" idea, but this episode is clearly trying to work off the 80s cartoon itself, which just doesn't jell with me. Hence my criticism.

      This is almost exactly how I feel about this, and why Phelous failed to see why Trans-Dimensional Turtles is way worse compared to Turtles Forever... and yes, The way I see Trans-Dimensional Turtles is that it's everything that Phelous said in his Turtles Forever review, except it DID happen in this crossover!

      What Phelous failed to see was look into RowdyC's Turtles Retrospective (from the Fred Wolf Series to the 4Kids series... minus the comics), to the point where RowdyC reviews Turtles Forever, and see that both continuites were poking fun of themselves, not just the 4Kids continuity poking fun of the Fred Wolf continuity:
      Ninja Turtles Retrospective Turtles Forever

      Ninja Turtles Retrospective Turtles Forever

      From 8:29 to 10:31, RowdyC addresses important info that Phelous skimmed throughout his entire review.

      RowdyC even showed that the Fred Wolf Turtles used their Exploding Ninja Stars to stop Ch'rell before Bebop and Rocksteady put the Plug back in... it's bad when one reviewer showed the importance of a plot device, when the other reviewer does not.

      Looking at Trans-Dimensional Turtles, I feel insulted to watch it. The Fred Wolf Turtles not standing up against the Nick Turtles for the constant insults? Having everything that they hold dear (including the "Turtle Power" Battle Cry) stolen by someone who thinks they're better than their predecesors? Krang being from a Modern Show and not an Older one? The Mirage Turtles not caring about the situation than they do in Turtles Forever? It's like one of the Creators did better research on the Fred Wolf TMNT cartoons that he didn't know much about, than a corporation who wants to cash-in on it's original success, especially considering that Viacom is using TMNT as a means of a tax scheme. Viacom should burn in a fire.

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    • that episode reminds me of Sonic Generations

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    • A FANDOM user
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