Hey again! The TMNT SDCC panel was great and got some community interaction - I just wondered if you had any feedback on this for Fandom please? I know I started some community discussions and Original Authority added content of the wiki. Is there anything we could have done better, to improve for next time? :) --Spongebob456talk
Hey again! How are you? Will try to keep this message brief as I know this wiki is very busy!
This Sunday 26th July at 10am PST, TMNT is having a San Diego Comic Con panel live streamed for free on YouTube. The panel is about the 30th anniversary of the first TMNT movie. Here are the details!
Do you know if you or anyone on this wiki would be likely to watch the panel this Sunday? There will be a lot cool details revealed that could be added to the wiki. Would also be a great to see what the crew have to say who worked on the movie! I look forward to hearing from you. :) --Spongebob456talk
Well there's the panel! That was a lot of fun and Bobby and Dave had a lot of laughs which was great to see. I noticed they don't have articles on the wiki - is that something you would be interested in creating for them? There were a few nuggets to add to the wiki I think, let us know what you thought of the panel! :) --Spongebob456talk
I've tried to grant Prophet-of-Ganja some leeway to air and discuss his issues with maintenance. But he hit a nerve, and at one point I had a repetitive stress injury in my fingers from those transcripts, and I worked through it until my previous laptop's keyboard started to break down. It's just...the wiki hasn't stood still all this time, and neither have we. We've been editing it, working at it, discussing it, being a process, together. I feel he's perfectly welcome to return and get more involved in day-to-day edits and discussions, but if he's not even doing that, then it his complaints just feel...like they're out of the blue long after any dust has settled.
Sorry, I'm just...angry. Really, really angry. I put so much work into this wiki. And looking back in his edit history (2018 is just several edits back), he first brought it up in Change is Constant, part 1/Transcript#comm-174402, and then again in Invasion of the Triceratons, part 5/Transcript#comm-182374, and again today in From the Heart, For the Herd, part 1/Transcript#comm-256258. And I noticed the first two times that he commented, I (and later you) responded, and then he didn't follow up on the responses. I was much calmer with him in Thread:254079 recently when he was complaining about the formatting of IDW Chronology, and he did respond to that. But honestly...I don't know what to do with him. He's listed as an administrator and content moderator, but he neither administers nor moderates, nor has he been getting involved in any way in the past two years except seemingly to complain once in a blue moon and then wander off never to return to the same article comment twice. And back in response to Invasion of the Triceratons, part 5/Transcript#comm-182374, I had gone through the trouble of giving him a detailed answer to his question of why the transcripts were useful and the level of consideration that goes into them. He just...ignores it, ignores me, ignores our work and our progress and our discussions together as a wiki. He just keeps asking the same question whose answer he seems to have no interest whatsoever in hearing.
Sorry for taking so long to get back, I had a full plate this morning and afternoon.
I had forgotten that he keeps showing up in the comments sections of different places and complaining about the same thing, with refusal to even discuss. I don't understand how anybody could think progress could be made that way.
I have been at times, wondering if the transcripts of at least recent issues does dabble a bit into... well it's gray to say it would be copyright infringement, but it's something Nickelodeon definitely could try to take legal issue with. I've seen them, specifically, flip out over less. But it's always just been one of those back-of-mind things that I never really put too much thought into, especially since I don't think one's even been written in eons.
Whether it is or not, his approach to this is absolutely unacceptable. All he'd have to do is have a discussion with you, and it's been apparent that you've tried that and he's refused.
I've had those same back-of-mind concerns. That's why I've tried to keep the transcripts...limited in scope. They're not a replacement for the comics, after all, nor should they be. It's the same reason that, when I upload individual scenes from comics, if possible, I try to crop them in such a way that the images can't replace half the comic. And of course this site is full of animated GIFs of a similar nature of the some of the most visually striking scenes in television episodes. I want the transcripts to be a low-key reference, with the hope that it encourages rather than discourages people from properly getting the whole comic.
If at some point someone in a position of authority demands they be taken down and we don't really have a recourse, then I could probably live with it if I had the chance to make some kind of database dump of the transcript text and accept the verdict. I do believe I once requested a text dump of the wiki before, and I totally know that was possible ten years ago—not sure if it still is now.
Yeah it's definitely a transformative work, and for the purpose of preservation really more than anything else. It's not too different from a synopsis, really. You don't get the full experience from just reading it.
I never imagined a place like this would attract so much drama.
So you truly think it's helped us improve the wiki that much by existing? That's such a potent feeling of validation.
And it's remarkable that it took him two years to make it clear that he was griping rather than just asking a question. I was wondering...could we remove the comments in From the Heart, For the Herd, part 1/Transcript#comm-256258? In the other comment pages he could have been plausibly asking questions. But on that page he was uncivil, and then I blew up at him. I just...don't want our spat to be what a random reader remembers most about that page.
sometimes all lowercase is a stylistic choice, to make text appear softer and less austere. perfect for signage that's meant to invite, like outside a shop. and if it's just used on one word, it may add a cheap mystique, like "why did they do it that way?"
You Know, Because Title Case Can Also Look Stuffy™.
TMNT started as a comic, so it'll always have that audience baked in. Plus the comics skew toward the older crowd - people who grew up with the series, often, as well as the fact that these people usually don't have to ask for permission to surf the web. The most recent comic also had shope relationship content (which always is a draw for certain fans), and a significant event.
I don't know if I've seen anything more traffic-wise in the forums.
It's cool that this wiki is able to attract a wide audience age range with content covered for younger and older audiences. That's awesome.
I asked about Forums as having the community being able to talk about the subject they love really makes a wiki not only placed edit articles but the go to social hub for the franchise. Would be really great if we could keep community engagement going on there, perhaps through episode discussions after a new episode airs. Is that something you guys have thought about in the past? --Spongebob456talk
So if human born mutants shouldn't go to the action figure page for Wyrm, can we create a page for toy continuity Wyrm who also appeared in original animated footage with a voice actor done in the style of the 1987 series for a toy commercial?
For reference, the Wyrm of the toyline has an entirely different background and alignment of the Archie Wyrm, though before I fixed the page, the ARchie version used to erroneously use the toy background for the archie version of the character.
Anyhow are you ok with creating a character page for the Toy Wyrm? We could even find out who voiced him in the commercial.
Action figures are merch and not characters. You could have Wyrm (1987 figure character) or something similar for a separate character page, maybe use the animated commercial as an image. We do have pages for like, for example Monty Moose (character).
With the Q&A soon (tomorrow) there may be more visitors to this wiki. Did you want to update your wiki's navigation? You only really have two custom level 1 headers and I'm wondering if we can expand that more to really make the most out of the navigation and how users navigate around the wiki. If you would like me to make a draft I'm more than happy to.
Hi, no worries! I've just updated it and nothing's been removed, just expanded on what was already there.
Just a couple of things - I've added a separate level 1 for Rise of the TMNT as that does help give exposure for that TV show and this wiki's content for it.
You may also notice some of the level 3 drop downs list content that appears random and that's because I've used autogenerating lists to fill out the navigation. You may want to change that to make it more custom and all that is totally editable at MediaWiki:Wiki-navigation. Everywhere you see something like **#Category1Rise of the TMNT characters|Characters the list is autogenerated.
If you want to add your own list to each level 2 header, feel free. Let me know if you need a hand with that. :) --Spongebob456talk
(Continued from the Ocho (IDW) talk page, as my draft response was getting bigger than I expected.)
The problem is arbitrary definitions of mutation. I've understood it to mean simply to change forms more or less permanently, whether by gradual genetic mutation, abrupt genetic mutation, a Turnstone, an enchantment (like with Ocho), or other means. If this is going to be a point of contention as far as categories are concerned, we need to assess the entire franchise's lore and answer the question, "What is a mutant?", because we can't adopt an arbitrarily narrow definition that will end up excluding anyone whose change was considered to have made them a mutant. This becomes an issue when we classify not just by individual continuity, but across all continuities—if the creative minds of one continuity differ on this question from the creative minds of another continuity, that distinction won't necessarily be obvious to editors or readers who may be aware of more than one continuity's lore strictly as audiences of the end product.
In this case, I can accept that Sophie didn't necessarily consider Ocho a mutant when she co-designed her. But if other mutants have been similarly made the way Ocho was, then what she considers, with all due respect to her creative authority on the matter, is still an incomplete picture here.
And just four days ago, another user sought my opinion at Thread:250643 on whether Rise of the TMNT was abandoning the franchise's trend of science fiction mutations in favor of magical mutations, because, and I quote, "Splinter and the Turtles are no longer mutants created by science, they are magical beings." I responded to their question there. But the point here is that even the Rise turtles have been intuitively judged by some of their audience as having been changed by a magical potion rather than by a sci-fi chemical, which would seem to put their mutations on par with the Turnstone and other magic-based mutation plot devices.
Regardless of what that is or not, when the author says "not a mutant", they're not mutant. On top of that, I don't know if you can call it "arbitrary" when it's the rules the franchise has run on since day 1. Mutant/mutation in a fictional universe is what it is in a fictional universe, regardless of real world or other fictional universes. You might as well start calling werewolves and the like mutants, if you're going to go by the logic that literally every transformation is a mutation.
Rise literally calls the Turtles and others transformed the same way, mutants. The substance they are transformed is called mutagen.
I suppose there are instances in which a magical usage can be considered mutation but that would be literally only in cases where it is called in-universe or by a creator to be mutation, such as the Transmutador Yin-Yang.
I've never been entirely convinced werewolves can't be considered mutants. But you make some good points here. All right. It appears there may still be some confusion over Jess Harley's status, but I will agree that, for the interests of categorization, Ocho is not a mutant. I'll edit accordingly.
You know, I do realize that sometimes I don't always think of these things in an ordinary manner that would be considered straightforward. I'm not exactly a lay person, and it's not always easy to think outside the boxes of my own training. Some things that people see as complicated, I see as plain, and some things that people see as plain, I see as complicated. Sometimes it...helps for another person to remind me of the steps I haven't considered and why they are necessary.
In regards to how I approach the word "mutate," my perception is perhaps skewed by both linguistics and computer science, two fields of study I'm heavily invested in. In linguistics, "mutate" is from Latin mutare, which means "to change." And in computer science, the terms "mutation" and "mutable" are used to describe the programmatic altering of data structures stored in live memory. All this has made me treat "mutate" as a synonym for "change," and "mutant" as a synonym for "changed." Sometimes I forget that meanings of words like that can be more contextual and layered.